Nice find Ned. I like what I'm hearing in that interview!
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“The human spirit glows from that small inner light of doubt whether we are right, while those who believe with certainty that they possess the right are dark inside and darken the world outside with cruelty, pain, and injustice.”
― Saul D. Alinsky, Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals, 1971