Old 30th May 2012, 01:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Does being a TOGger mean you don't kill survivors on sight?

Read this post in the DayZ forums and I have to say this guy would make a real pirate in EveO.

So the question is: Does the fact that we are TOG members, and therefore not griefers? I use the word griefer instead of murderer due to the fact that this is a game.

I'm sure many of you have killed in self defence, but does the prospect of killing for the sake of it (as the above link suggests) hold any attraction?

I for one am a live and let live kind of guy.

Thoughts?
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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On my very first login and spawn, I walked up into the hills away from the beach. I turned back to watch the sea and noticed someone running along the beach... I decided to test out the range on the Makarov. I was clearly out of range, but I had a few giggles watching him skip and turn and weave when he heard the shot - Since that inccident, I haven't had another opportunity to test out my DayZ moral compass yet, so I'll get back to you on this one
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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He's not killing for the sake of it actually. Coming up against any unidentified survivor is very risky and extreme caution should be exercised. We could do a flowchart here...

If you have just spawned, then there is no risk. If you spawn and then come across someone with gear the person with the gear has all the risk and you have none. New spawners have nothing to lose and everything to gain from unloading some Makarov into someone looking the wrong way.

If you have been playing for a few hours, accumulated some equipment and are formulating a plan, stumbling across an unidentified survivor, pointing their weapon at you, eyeing your AK / Whinny / Revolver and Assault Pack... then you cannot be blamed for treating them with perhaps extreme prejudice (or even mediocre prejudice?).

Let me give an example, yesterday, I had a Lee enfield, a tent, a whole bunch of the other little useful trinkets and was on my way to meet up with TOG mates. I was trying to refill water (the old way) and sure enough ended up ejecting all my gear into the pond. I'm scrambling to collect it all and I hear footsteps behind me. Alarm bells going off! I'm here with my pants down basically, gear in the water and unknown person behind me. I've recently been slain by unidentified survivors, losing an AK and pack full of gear.

I turn and see the survivor, pointing his weapon at me. He could have shot first but he didn't. He's silently looking... At anytime he could have opened up with his Makarov, he also had a Lee on his back. I hold back from the temptation to resolve this encounter with a pre-emptive strike and we commence a dialogue.

"You right there? Is that all your gear in the water?"

"Yeah I'm ok but stay back please"

"Are you going to collect that stuff"

"Yes but not with you standing around!"

anyway, he genuinely wasn't interested in attacking and he backed off into the woods, offering assistance if required. I thanked him but I have resolved to not trust non-toggers in the game unless they show a substantial indication of friendliness OR I do not have anything to lose (new spawn) and hence teaming up with them makes sense.

He could have opened fire as soon as he saw me, he could have lied, he could have done anything but in this case he was friendly. Not so many others are and sometimes it definitely is kill or be killed and since I have been killed several times and sometimes negotiation and communication is not always convenient when you are in a faceoff (and chatting takes your finger off the trigger) I have decided that sometimes you need to make difficult decisions which involve life and death.

I would not like to see TOG as an organisation trying to govern player behaviour as it is against the core design of the game. This tension is unique to this game and what makes it so intense.
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It is a very good question.

Open PvP is expected in this game and the devs have already stated that it is against policy to kick/ban because someone did kill someone else.

So I think this game is probably close to the EVE experience. Does the EVE Division ban members for killing others? I don't think so.

Personally the only player I have killed was someone wearing the bandit skin (which is now out of the game) so I think I'll be moving toward the flight response when I encounter another player.

Basically if you aren't on TS, then I'll be running away from all other players.

However, I would still like to get a squad going of TOG so we can hit/raid the NW airfield
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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haha just read this on the forum - it's the TL; DR for my wall above:

"Oh, another dickhead, I should've shot first".
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genghoidal View Post
This tension is unique to this game and what makes it so intense.
Quoted because it is SO true!
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:43 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Another thing I have found myself doing is to try to get out of line of sight from a player so that we can carry on a dialogue without having our guns pointed at each other. Tends to help ease the tension a little..

We kill each other in almost every game anyway too. Call of Duty / Battlefield delineate the teams for you. In this game, in its sandbox fashion the player is left to choose whether to have a team, find friends, kill everyone they see etc. The more freedom you give the player the more morally questionable is the choice or necessity to kill?
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Killing people in this game is not griefing. It's not against the TOG ethos. It's the way the game is designed to be played and even as TOG members we are perfectly within our rights to kill any other person we come across in this game and take their gear.

What we are not allowed to do as TOG members is get insulting and abusive over chat, spawn camp them (hard to do as spawning is pretty random) and carry out other 'abusive' acts.

My philosophy in DayZ is simple. If you are not in TS or I can't identify you as a TOGger, you are an enemy and fair game.

For this reason I strongly urge all TOG players to put TOG tags in your profile name so that even if you aren't in TS, if I can ID you I will recognise you and wont shoot at you.

This is just my base philosophy. How I actually act at any given moment is really up to my whim at the time. As yet I have only killed bandits. I've also helped out randoms with gear donations, healing, guidance etc. But I still view everyone who I can't ID as a TOGger as an enemy. And now we can't visually ID bandits, so I'm gonna be a whole lot more edgy around unknowns.
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishopNZ View Post
Quoted because it is SO true!
I have to say, naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Ultima Online, Mortal Online, EvE Online all capture the same feeling with open pvp and full gear loss.

But I do completely agree with the sentiment. I'm just being a picky prick. Without the possibility of loss a game has little possibility for excitement.
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Old 30th May 2012, 02:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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DayZ is PvP with Zs thrown in... be prepared to die
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