is modern DRM that bad ?

[Ned]

Hi all,

There's been a bit of discussion in a few threads lately about various games and developers using DRM methods for protection. Here's a post I made regarding DRM and Steam version of Wings of Prey.

I've heard many a horror story with StarForce and some of the earlier DRM setups but more recently I still hear people being not happy about DRM but I haven't actaully heard any bad stories..

Even though I've never had a problem with DRM setups I do find them invasive and don't appreciate developers assuming I'm a criminal. I do NOT pirate ANYTHING.

Here's some DRM info that may interest some.

SOURCE: FAQ - yuPlay forum

SOURCE: A message to the developers regarding Steam and Starforce - yuPlay forum

Wings of Prey has essentially unlimited activations.

Is modern DRM that bad ?

[Reoh]

They way in which some DRM (Like Secureom) for example integrates into the system, is by plugging directly into the Kernel. They do this to try and get themselves "above" the level of which hacks can tie in and fiddle with them. Of course this is a futile attempt because most Securom games seem to be compromised within days; the danger however is that by interfacing directly with the kernel the Securom may cause conflicts with your PC's normal functions. Most people will never notice a problem, but those unlucky few that do end up with a crippled machine that needs to be wiped and restarted. Also not all modern DRM's have activation unlocking tools, some will restrict you to a certain amount of installs. Which seems odd when you think about it, whats the point of having a restriction if you just release tools to disable it?

[Thermal Ions]

tl;dr version:

1. It's a time consuming hassle to locate, download and use all the various deactivation tools needed.
2. I usually forget to deactivate when doing a reinstall or hardware change.
3. Publisher support frequently stinks - don't fancy relying on them to reset activations.

Rant version:

I recently upgraded my video card (subsequently creating flow on hand me down across 3 systems), and considering I had a number of games with secuROM installed (gave in on sales) and not being sure just how much or which hardware had to change to make it use up an activation I went searching for deactivation tools for each of them first. After numerous google searches, visits to publisher support sites, secuROM's support site I finally had downloaded the multiple deactivation tools I thought I needed. Of course one publisher tool when run then pointed me to a number of other individual game deactivation tools that I had to download rather than just have it all built into one (my initial impression). It was a huge hassle and took up more time than the actual hardware and driver install of the 3 video cards.

Invariably I forget to deactivate when doing windows reinstalls or can't if I have a hard drive die. I only remembered this time due to it having been a recent topic of discussion here on the TOG forum.

I don't want to have to rely on emailing the publisher and waiting on a response if I need activations reset. My experiences emailing publishers (with the exception of indie developers self publishing) have been horrendous. Most recently it took 3 weeks to even get an initial non-automated response from 2K Games let alone an actual answer that took even longer and just proved they didn't have a clue. That's despite their automated email response indicating I would hear from them within 48/72 hours (forget which now). I'm similarly waiting on a response from another major software publisher (not game related I'll admit) that's going into it's third week now. Put simply, from my experience, more publishers than not, don't have much of a focus on customer support, only on what's the next game they can sell you at over-inflated prices.

/rant off

Have never experienced any hardware failures / software conflicts that I've traced to DRM. Wife lost some music she bought one time due to crappy DRM not working right though.

[Drac]

When DRM prevents you from using software you have purchased, it's bad.

Case in point: Borderlands. http://www.joystiq.com/2009/10/23/bo...hford-unable/2

The problem with DRM is not it's existence, it's do to with it's stupidity. It can not correctly differentiate a legal user from a criminal user thus is must treat all users as criminals.

It forces legal users to perform a song and dance and jump through endless hoops to satisfy some inhuman watchdog while the publishers and developers simple stand back and say "Gee, we're sorry about about that..."

Meanwhile, people who downloaded a pirated version of Borderlands were happily playing it before the street date.

In the particular case of Borderlands, the hackers offered a better and more pleasant user experience than the publishers did. Legality/monetary issues aside, that's just ass-backwards and wrong.

I don't care if other people pirate the game, that's the publishers problem, not mine. All I care about is that I can use a product I paid for without having a large man wearing a rubber glove do uncomfortable things to me.

[Thermal Ions]

Originally Posted by Drac

The problem with DRM is not it's existence, it's do to with it's stupidity. It can not correctly differentiate a legal user from a criminal user thus is must treat all users as criminals.

It forces legal users to perform a song and dance and jump through endless hoops to satisfy some inhuman watchdog while the publishers and developers simple stand back and say "Gee, we're sorry about about that..."

Meanwhile, people who downloaded a pirated version of Borderlands were happily playing it before the street date.

Doesn't make sense why publishers continue to employ it considering it's a cost to their business to do so. SecuROM must really have some top quality sales people to spin it as a benefit despite evidence to the contrary. Guess those who get spun don't get to see the evidence.

[Reoh]

Its probably a case where corporate publishing executives don't know what colour the sidewalk on the street is.

[Jigoku]

Is it bad? If it worked as intended I could put up with it. I've never had any computer related issues related to it.

But the fact it *doesn't* prevent piracy and the hoops I jump through are simply circumvented by cracks makes me resentful of it being included in my purchase.

[Mixer]

I had massive blue screen issues in Vista 64 with Star**** when it first came out, and due to the fact that its sort of 'hidden' I didn't immediately make the connection. Plus they deliberately make these things interfere with products like Daemon Tools and so on.

There are known issues with Starforce causing hard drive bus errors and forcing optical drives and hard drives down to compatibility modes which cripple your system.

I agree with the above posts, that modern DRM is broken because it never serves its actual purpose, yet causes significant hassle for the legitimate purchasers.

[Mighty Brush]

DRM is annoying and causes problems. It means that if you buy rather than pirate, you get a worse copy.

You should NEVER get a worse copy when you buy.

Therefore, you should never get DRM.

[Reoh]

Originally Posted by Jigoku

Is it bad? If it worked as intended I could put up with it. I've never had any computer related issues related to it.

But the fact it *doesn't* prevent piracy and the hoops I jump through are simply circumvented by cracks makes me resentful of it being included in my purchase.

Exactly right, it just makes games cost more (to license using the DRM) for something that doesn't work anyway. Ultimately its the legitimate customers that get stuck with all the problems.

Obviously there's a reason for it, piracy and all, but someday we'll have to figure out a better way than punishing legal users for the maelefescence practiced of others.