Mindcrack: Mining with turtles

[Sorontar]

A reminder that each player is only allowed a maximum of three turtles activated. Mining turtles also follow the quarry rules.

[Sorontar]

A reminder that each player is only allowed a maximum of three turtles activated. Mining turtles also follow the quarry rules.

[DaedalusAlpha]

To have turtles communicate use wireless modems.

You do know how to program right? So you can avoid at least obvious mistakes such as having loops that rapidly poll without sleeping and so on. Otherwise I would recommend testing this out in singleplayer first, and then maybe have someone else review the code before implemented on the server.

@ Sor:
How do you decide if a turtle follow the quarry rule? It mines where it mines, essentially taking the quarry with it, it has no point of reference (other than possibly a charging station or drop off point). It doesn't keep chunks loaded.

I mean if you use the default mining program it will work in a pattern similar to a quarry, so it might be warranted to limit it to 9x9. But point out that you write a custom code where the turtle mines layer by layer vertically. Does it have to have some sort of forced stop once it's done with a 9x9 area seen from above? How long does this stop have to be? Is a millisecond enough? I mean if it just continues it will be as if you moved the quarry to the neighboring 9x9 area automatically.

Similarly if you have it dig 200 blocks in a long line, that could also be seen as you have a quarry that mines 9 blocks in a line, is moved 9 blocks forward, then mines another 9 and so on. Inefficient but allowed as I interpret the rules.

Essentially what I want to say is that I think it's hard to apply the quarry rules on an entity that isn't bound to a location.

[Sorontar]

Originally Posted by DaedalusAlpha

@ Sor:
How do you decide if a turtle follow the quarry rule? It mines where it mines, essentially taking the quarry with it, it has no point of reference (other than possibly a charging station or drop off point). It doesn't keep chunks loaded.

The chunk loading isn't the only issue. Leaving gapping big holes in the ground is another as is uncontrolled mining. For this reason, by default, turtles have the same rules as quarries. If a player can't restrict where the turtle goes, then they shouldn't be using it.

While we are open to considering changes to rules like this, we are trying to keep things simple. The quarry rules are designed for large scale mining but cover all uses of the relevant machines by default. If you want to use any mining turtle for some other purposes, you are well to outline your plans to a member of the Admin team and they will consider giving you once-off permission to be an exception. Generally though you will be told to just do it in 9x9 stages. I am not aware of any exceptions we have granted. Most requests have just been players wanting to be lazy and clear a room etc in one go rather than stages like everyone else (or by hand).

Sorontar

[DaedalusAlpha]

Originally Posted by Sorontar

The chunk loading isn't the only issue. Leaving gapping big holes in the ground is another as is uncontrolled mining. For this reason, by default, turtles have the same rules as quarries. If a player can't restrict where the turtle goes, then they shouldn't be using it.

While we are open to considering changes to rules like this, we are trying to keep things simple. The quarry rules are designed for large scale mining but cover all uses of the relevant machines by default. If you want to use any mining turtle for some other purposes, you are well to outline your plans to a member of the Admin team and they will consider giving you once-off permission to be an exception. Generally though you will be told to just do it in 9x9 stages. I am not aware of any exceptions we have granted. Most requests have just been players wanting to be lazy and clear a room etc in one go rather than stages like everyone else (or by hand).

Sorontar

Ok, but taking my example of a turtle that mines slice by slice where each slice has the depth of the world, is 9 blocks wide and 1 block thick, how do you determine that the turtle stops at each 9 block stage? If it's a quarry this threshold is easily distinguishable in that you will break the quarry once it's done and re-place it in a new spot. In the case of the turtle it's simply a matter of telling it to continue on to the next 9x9 area, something it's perfectly capable of doing all by itself opposed to a quarry which can't move itself.

Or look at it this way; you arrive at my quarry location to check that I'm not breaking the rules. If I were using a quarry it's easy for you to do so, you can simply check how large it is. However, you can't see if my turtle (digging in the above mentioned manner) is working in sections of 9x9 because it immediately starts the new section as soon as it's done with the previous. To you it's just a large ditch in the ground with dimensions 9x[length].

I can even define the turtles digging area as 1x1x[depth]. This would be allowed as per the quarry rules because it's smaller than 9x9x[depth] yes? Then as soon as the turtle is finished with that area, it goes on to the next 1x1x[depth] area, that so happens to be next to the previous one. This is still within the rules as far as I know. Now once it has dug a 200x200x[depth] area, can you say I broke the rules? In my eyes one column was one quarry operation. I can even let the turtle finish each column by placing 2-3 cobble on top, effectively sealing the quarry at the same time.

This is not an attempt to reinterpreting the rules, I'm simply trying to illustrate that the quarry rules as they stand currently do not apply at all to turtles. Trying to do so only results in incompatibilities and special cases. Turtles and quarries are too different from each others to work well under the same ruleset.

In any way, I don't understand how this could emerge from a thread about tree cutting, maybe it should be moved to its own thread?

[Sorontar]

It emerged in a forestry thread because people were discussing using turtles in a large scale environment. But I agree, it has now become a topic of its own so I have copied or moved the posts to this thread.

Once a 9x9xdepth area has been dug, it should be covered and the area marked as a quarry site. If it is already underground, then the turtle can then start the next quarry space. Otherwise, it needs to wait till the cover and marking is done.

If you can't make a turtle do that (ie. stop after digging a hole), then you haven't programmed it according to the rules and you have a autonomous moving mining device.[1]

Sorontar

[1] And I don't care if it only has a limited supply of fuel. The player has to set boundaries to it, and we have decided 9x9 should be those boundaries.

[DaedalusAlpha]

Ok so the rule is essentially; you may only dig a hole with an area of 81 blocks before covering it. Unless underground in which case the hole can be essentially any size.

And this does not void the size of a quarry which is still limited to 9x9 over or under ground.

Just to confirm; if my base is underground, and I have a quarry (or mining turtle) in it, then that must be counted as underground right? as in, as long as people on the outside can not blunder through a hole and fall down. Of course it's still smart to fill in the holes so I myself don't fall in (and not reducing my own framerate), but it's not a requirement, right?

[Deweyoxberg]

Q: you are all aware a turtle does not keep chunks loaded, correct?

A turtle will stop after the chunk it is in unloads and will need to be restarted manually (break/replace).

May also want to add that there needs to a collector at the origin, otherwise blocks will spew everywhere.

[Sorontar]

Originally Posted by DaedalusAlpha

Ok so the rule is essentially; you may only dig a hole with an area of 81 blocks before covering it. Unless underground in which case the hole can be essentially any size.

And this does not void the size of a quarry which is still limited to 9x9 over or under ground.

Just to confirm; if my base is underground, and I have a quarry (or mining turtle) in it, then that must be counted as underground right? as in, as long as people on the outside can not blunder through a hole and fall down. Of course it's still smart to fill in the holes so I myself don't fall in (and not reducing my own framerate), but it's not a requirement, right?

You must remain in control of your turtle at all times. Regardless of whether it is digging from underground or overground, if you are digging holes, by the rules, each space you dig cannot be bigger than 9x9xdepth. Once you have dug that space, you can then dig the 9x9xdepth space right next to it. If you want to end up with a 81x3x6 space then you have to dig that as 9 9x3x6 holes next to each other, not one big hole. Likewise a 81x3xbedrock space is made up of 9 9x3xbedrock holes.

While the programming required may not seem simple, we have already discussed that it never is. However, we don't want to make the server rules any more complicated than they already are. Hence, if a player can't make their mining turtle follow the rules, then perhaps they shouldn't be using the turtle.

Sorontar

[OranjeJus]

Edit: Bah, echoed Sor's response as he was typing it...

I think saying '81 bolck area' is moving away from the simplified rules. Just go with 9x9 and smaller if you wish, just like a quarry. I've never heard of anyone wanting, trying, or considering using markers to make an 81x1 quarry. Or a 40x2 etc.

The work in progress turtle should be mining no larger than 9 in either dimension. If the work in progress makes a hole on the surface, cover it when done before allowing the turtle to move onto the next location. Mark the site clearly as an old quarry and dangerous once it is covered.

If the first 9x9 is dug layers below the ground, then there is no surface hole to cover before having the turtle start a new project. There should be an indication not to dig there however (so if it's not working on building silos/rooms for your underground lair, it still needs safety features like warning signs.)


- OJ