Oblivion, Still the RPG to Play!

[Spectre8]

Great read there Father, thanks!

I've been a dedicated shooter fan for as long as computer games have been around, and have never delved into RPG's before. A friend of mine gave me his copy to try out (crappy pooter) and have been heeked ever since! I can't seem to drag myself away from it to even play the other games I "love"!

All I can say to others contemplating trying this, is to do so. It is the most enjoyable epic you'll have come across... well, it has been for me!

Thanks for the article Dad!

[brohawk]

Oblivion is a big hit no doubt. One of the guys at work is the author of the Shadow Ranger mod, and the mods definitely add a lot to the excellent work that Bethesda has done. I have been a fan of theirs since Daggerfall, although I wasn't so big on Battlespire or Redguard, they have much improved. There are those who are not happy that Bethesda got the Fallout license but I for one am happy. If they can outdo STALKER (another excellent game), then it will be another work of art.

As far as Oblivion goes, I thought the painting quest with the trolls was really neat. I think that was my favorite.

[insomnia]

I got Oblivion when it was first released due to the enormous good response the game got from mags, gamer-sites, etc. And found myself sadly disappointed:

The 'world levels with you as you level' is the worst part of Oblivion, and too me ruins the whole foundation of a good RPG. If you want your character to be strong in Oblivion, all you need to do is not sleep (level); you still some benefits of leveling, whilst the world does not (as it levels with you only when you sleep up to a new level). If a quest involves difficult mobs before leveling, they will level with you, and be just as difficult after you've leveled. But not if you don't, which makes no sense at all!

My second big disappointment was the quest set-up. Far to linear, with all but a few having only one or two possible outcomes. Again, this is a killer of true RPG, where your actions should have several possible consequences.

I could go on talking about bugs, crashing, etc, however these two faults in a RPG is enough for me to feel that the enormously good reviews Oblivion got (and still gets) are far beyond what the game truly deserves. Yes, I did enjoy Oblivion, but not near as much as I thought I would. And no ammount of eye-candy can make up for that!

[Jakob_Pavlov]

Originally Posted by drlute

The 'world levels with you as you level' is the worst part of Oblivion, and too me ruins the whole foundation of a good RPG. If you want your character to be strong in Oblivion, all you need to do is not sleep (level); you still some benefits of leveling, whilst the world does not (as it levels with you only when you sleep up to a new level). If a quest involves difficult mobs before leveling, they will level with you, and be just as difficult after you've leveled. But not if you don't, which makes no sense at all!

Just as an F.Y.I.: You are aware that there is (at least) one mod that can change this aren't you?

Laters,
Jakob

[insomnia]

I am aware Jacob...

I just havn't gotten around to installing it and giving another go.

However, I feel games should be released in the best playable version by it's original developers. It seems to me Bethesda did a lousy job, and left the community tools to correct their screw-ups. Thus, the praise they recieve is far beyond what they deserve...

[Father]

For me the level is irrelevant, in my opinion it's a meaningless number that gets too much focus. In MMO's levelling has been taken to the point where nothing is relevant at all in the game apart from getting to that next level.
And when you get that next level you go to the next zone you couldn't go prior so you can only get to zone X with a level y character.
I personally don't like that, it feels artificial and exactly creates the situation where all that matters is levelling. Which is probably one of the big reasons that not a single MMO out there has ever been able to retain my interest.

I don't want to worry about levels, I don't care about them and the last thing I want to do is grind towards them, Oblivion could have easily taken this level number out of the game all together and just have your skillsets increase.

I just want to immerse myself in the story and go through this wondrous world and regardless of place and level you are faced with a challenge.
Oblivion doesn't play like an RPG where there are invisible borders in the land that can only be crossed with certain skills. The areas where the game steers you to are strongly influenced by the quests you take on board and in my opinion this is what it should be like, my level shouldn't force me into a certain direction, the story should.
And the world levels around you alongside with you yes but you get better weapons, better magical abilities, better armour. And your enemies look and will attack you differently too and can only be defeated by using the skills and weapons abilities you have gained. So it's not like you get the same looking troll at every level that you can defeat the same way.

At level 1 you kill the level 1 troll with your butterknife
At level 20 you need to take out some Frost Atronarch with your special combo moves, your magical abilities, ensure you have the right armor and drunk the correct potions to protect you against its attacks.
So purely from a "gameplay" point of view it's the same thing as walking into the next level dungeon in other RPG's, it's all about the challenge and how you deal with it.

I certainly appreciate and welcome your comments on the game and your reasons for disliking it and I'm sure you are not alone based on the fact that some modders have took it upon themselves to change this part of the gameplay.
And at the end of the day we are all entitled to like the things we like and don't like in the games we play.

On that note, the shivering isles are waiting!

[Judge_Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Ninox

The only thing that bugged me about it was how I could not put things down carefully and ended up throwing them down, which considering how well I could do everthing else was weird.

I too found this ... perplexing, especially after playing a game like SWG where furnishing a house could literally take you days ... or even weeks! In the end I ended up using the 'levitate' spell but it was still pretty clumsy.

Nice article and a great game. Some mods, IMO, are essential. Such as the 'load' screen remover and the water enhancer. Also the 'hunter' mod I found very helpful if I wanted to spend some time away hunting deer.

Ironically, after playing this game for (is it really a year?) a year, I have never finished the main story-line quest

[insomnia]

Originally Posted by Father

...Oblivion could have easily taken this level number out of the game all together and just have your skillsets increase.

I agree with what you write regarding the leveling Father, and especially how it can make some games into a race to get to the next level, then the next...

However, in Oblivion (unmodded) you stand just as much chance of killing the badass vampires at level 3 as you do at level 23. All the mobs become stronger as you keep on getting stronger. And as your equipment improves, so does theirs. At level 30 you wont find a single mob without way better equipment than what you had at level 3, and it doesn't matter if the mob is a beggar or a prince. At level 30, its almost impossible to find regular iron weapons, they just disappear from the game.

Originally Posted by Father

At level 1 you kill the level 1 troll with your butterknife. At level 20 you need to take out some Frost Atronarch with your special combo moves, your magical abilities, ensure you have the right armor and drunk the correct potions to protect you against its attacks.
So purely from a "gameplay" point of view it's the same thing as walking into the next level dungeon in other RPG's, it's all about the challenge and how you deal with it.

At level 1 you kill the level 1 troll with your butterknife (in a Troll Hunt Quest, or whatever), but if you wait til you've leveled to your 20th level and then do this quest, the troll is also level 20, and you need your special combo moves, your magical abilities, ensure you have the right armor and drunk the correct potions to protect you against its attacks.

Same quest - same challenge compared to your own skills.

Why can't the trolls be within a normal distribution of skill and equipment? If you run into a random one, why can't it have a random level compared to yours? Why must it always be the same challenge, based on how leveled your character is? Why is the butterknife, which was every mobs favourite weapon at your level 1, been replaced with the glass dagger when you're level 20?

[Colt]

Originally Posted by drlute

However, in Oblivion (unmodded) you stand just as much chance of killing the badass vampires at level 3 as you do at level 23. All the mobs become stronger as you keep on getting stronger. And as your equipment improves, so does theirs. At level 30 you wont find a single mob without way better equipment than what you had at level 3, and it doesn't matter if the mob is a beggar or a prince. At level 30, its almost impossible to find regular iron weapons, they just disappear from the game.



At level 1 you kill the level 1 troll with your butterknife (in a Troll Hunt Quest, or whatever), but if you wait til you've leveled to your 20th level and then do this quest, the troll is also level 20, and you need your special combo moves, your magical abilities, ensure you have the right armor and drunk the correct potions to protect you against its attacks.

Same quest - same challenge compared to your own skills.

Why can't the trolls be within a normal distribution of skill and equipment? If you run into a random one, why can't it have a random level compared to yours? Why must it always be the same challenge, based on how leveled your character is? Why is the butterknife, which was every mobs favourite weapon at your level 1, been replaced with the glass dagger when you're level 20?

As has been said mate, some mods are invaluable and really are "required" mods for many people. One of those is a "leveling" mod which fixes these problems with the automatic level up of creatures based on the characters level. I never could stand how bandits ALWAYS dropped magic armor when you got to a high enough level.

Incidentally have you, or anyone else, tried Oscuros Oblivion Overhaul (or OOO) mod? It does this balancing thing plus a LOT of other improvments.... including improving the Player Character level system. It is one of the most popular mods out there due to the improvements it makes to the gameplay. It's worth a try for those who want to give Oblivion a whole new lease on life.

Colt.

[Jakob_Pavlov]

Originally Posted by Ninox

The only thing that bugged me about it was how I could not put things down carefully and ended up throwing them down, which considering how well I could do everthing else was weird.

Originally Posted by Judge_Kiwi

I too found this ... perplexing, especially after playing a game like SWG where furnishing a house could literally take you days ... or even weeks! In the end I ended up using the 'levitate' spell but it was still pretty clumsy.

Disclaimer: It's a while since I've loaded Oblivion up (shame on me!), so the below is likely to be somewhere between inaccurate and just plain wrong!

From memory, there is an (undocumented?) "manipulate" button. I think it's X by default. Point your cursor at an item hold down X and move around and the item moves with you. It does allow for some fairly fine adjustments of items on shelves etc.

Hope that helps,
Jakob