PS3: Rumour: PS4 to be announced on Feb 20. (teaser included)

[xenoph]

I will not be getting the PS4.
I've never really enjoyed the Playstation, even when the first one came out I preferred to continue on the N64.

I do think that Schizo has a very valid point though - Sony need the PS4 to be a success, or it might just not be a PS5, which I don't think the console market will benefit from.
Of course, perhaps people will return to the PC then...

[Ancient_One]

Originally Posted by Father

God of War which I would never play.

Sorry......did you just say you would never play God of War on a console. Call yourself a console gamer.

[Schizo]

And just to interject some humor into all this talk of the PS4, I have to share this Onion video that I feel is particularly relevant:

(note before you click, the language in this video is NSFW, so if you don't care for that kind of thing, may I direct you to this link instead?)

Sony Releases New Stupid Piece Of Shit That Doesn't ****ing Work | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[xenoph]

Hah, that's a load of swearing.

[Drac]

Originally Posted by Schizo

Average Joe consumer has very little reason to buy the PS4 from what has been shown so far. The hardcore gamers will buy consoles on launch day

Pretty much the same as all other game console launches then?

Originally Posted by Schizo

typically hardware in the first few years is subsidized and the company (Sony) takes a loss on each console sold

I knoew what all the "analysis" sites said, but I honestly think the PS3 broke even for the first few years and has been making a profit for longer than most realise. And there are a lot of other factors involved beyond jsut the cost of getting the console to consumers. Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo take a cut of every single game sale for the platform, so even if they're still at break even on the hardware they're still making money in other places (and loosing in yet others areas, such as marketing and support).

Anyway, looking at just this aspect of a console is pointless, it's like looking at how long a particular kind of paint will last on a car you're about to purchase and claiming that if the paint will hold up for 20 years then nothing else on the car could possible break before then - things just aren't that simple.

That being said, the launch price will be super important, and this is often an area in which Sony has been quite poor at.

Originally Posted by Schizo

right now, I just don't see the reason for a casual or non-gamer to pick up the console.

Correct. A non-gamer would not buy a game console. Just like people with 20/20 vision don't buy corrective lenses.

Not really getting your point here. Also, what's your definition of casual gamer, and why do you see it as bad that such casual people would not want a game console?

Originally Posted by Schizo

Are the visuals improved? Seems so, but I don't think a casual will be able to point out the differences between a PS3 and PS4 screenshot side by side.

Again with the casual?

Have you ever heard anyone refer to themselves as a "casual gamer"?

I also think you do a disservice to people's intelligence here. Show a PS3/4 screen shot comparison to any actual gamer and they'll see the difference, trust me. There's a massive jump in hardware there. Don't be fooled by the fact that it's PC hardware, the Xbox 360 is little more than a Pentium D (like, slower than a current Atom low power CPU) with an ATI X1800 (ooooooold), yet look what that kit can do when a developer knows that's the base minimum and can program to the bare metal!

PC (Windows) games are horribly inefficient because they have to work though all these driver and OS layers before they get to the hardware, it's the only way you can sanely make PC games that run on thousands of different bits of hardware. This is something the Steambox will have problems with, it's being built on stop of a slow general-purpose software stack (Windows or Linux, they're both slow compared to what you can do working with a fixed hardware set directly).

Also, GPGPU processing (physics, particle wet dreams - probably literally - realtime 3D fluid dynamics would be possible) being standard and usable for actual game play rather than just optional visual effects for those who have the hardware is the big leg up over the PC here.

Originally Posted by Schizo

In fact, each successive generation of consoles seems to be making less and less of a leap forward in visual prowess.

Picking MGS as it's game who's format hasn't really changed much over the years:


There be boxes!


There be more boxes! But they have a higher resoltuon, oh and shadows, everyone loves boxes with shadows!


Dafuq happened to all the boxes?

Those differences look fairly large to me, I'd even say (aside from resolution) the PS1/2 differences were much less pronounced compare to the PS2/3.

I think hitting 1080P at 60fps + AA and with enough power to use lavishly complex shaders for every surface/polygon plus lots of physics/destruction and a ridiculous amount of particles and GPGPU goodness will really will open up a new world of eye candy. Sure it takes exponentially more power to keep upping the bar now but thankfully the hardware is actually exponentially more powerful.

Originally Posted by Schizo

So the PS4 is touted as having all these social media aspects to it. It even has a 'share' button on the controller! So while this may endear itself to the facebook crowd, it doesn't seem like it would be a major selling point to the machine. Unless, of course, I'm completely underestimating the social media aspect (terribly likely since I'm about as anti-facebook as they come), there does not seem to be much value in purchasing a PS4 when one already has a PS3, or is faced with the option of purchasing a much cheaper PS3.

I'd say you're off the mark a bit here. Also, "the facebook crowd" is 100 million strong at last count. For the older gamers this may not be a huge selling point, but for many it is. The sharing and social aspects of the console is what had everyone in my office exited (we make games so suffice to say, everyone at the office plays a lot of games). Mostly because a lot of what we do involves sharing and discussing our gaming experiences and anything that makes that simpler and easier is a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

I don't think the next Xbox is going to be much different. It means I'm a stuck up old bastard who thinks games were better 'back in the day' and 'get off my lawn'.

But does this really have any relevance to the platform? I mean, a console is just a means to access/play games. The main differences between the PS3/360 (aside from exclusives, of which there's generally enough on offer for either console in every genre) it's the services that allow you to connect to games and other gamers. IMO, 360 beats the pants off PS3 for this and Sony knows that, looks to me like they want to change it up and focus on getting people playing/sharing/discovering faster.

Personally I think Sony's new philosophy for what a good game platform should be is great, however, it'll all depend on how well it's executed. If Sony has a proven track record of anything it's their ability to over promise and under deliver. Remote play was meant to happen for the PS3 with the PSP, it didn't, along with a lot of other nice ideas that suffered from poor execution (like PlayStation Home).

I will say though, the adoption rates are going to mean everything.

Why?

PS3 had terrible adoption out of the gate and despite being out a year less than the 360 it's sold worldwide an equal amount.

I don't think you are going to see sales of the consoles reach as high as they did during this last generation of consoles (or even the one before that!), and I also think there is going to be a much, much shorter lifecycle on this generation. I think within just a few years, 4k televisions will be more widespread, the processing horsepower cost to run at 4k will be lower, and you'll see the next generation beyond this one sooner rather than later.

I disagree with a lot of those for a lot of different reasons. 4K TVs really aren't that necessary for, well, anything except people who have enough cash to build their own private home theater with a 100"+ display. PC desktop resolutions haven't moved much in the past 5 years and there's a genuine befit to increase the resolution there as text display is still a primary function on the desktop. For TVs which focus on games/media 4K is really quite pointless - it's more a push by the TV companies trying to make you think you need another TV as they desperately try to keep profits up from the initial HDTV push.

Problem is, Sony is in some dire financial straits right now, and their console division is helping to keep the company afloat. They need the PS4 to be a success. If it flops, it worries me as to whether there will be a PS5.

I'd be more worried about a single company dominating the console game market. Competition here is necessary, and because the competition is so fierce companies will take risks - some will be great, others will fail (it's ok Kinect, some children and weirdo hackers still love you) but I think those risks, both good and bad, are also necessary to keep the industry moving forward.

I guess I just have a different perspective on things. Overall I think the PS4 sounds great, and if Sony can actually deliver what they promise I'd like to hope it would do well.

At the same time the landscape is changing. Steambox and mobile gaming may effect consoles, they may not, it's pretty much impossible to predict any of this as it's never really happened before. How big is the gaming market and how much money are gamers spending, and what are they spending it on?

Also, this is gold:

[Chief]

I'm just stoked about the suspend mode. Now when the Mrs starts yelling at me about something and I have to put the controller down I won't have to worry about finding a save point first or whatever

[Bawheidbob]

Yeah the ability to just switch the thing on and play when you want to and switch off just as easily is ace - Countless times I have taken the urge to ( no not that ) play my PS3 or XBox, heck even a PC game, and found that the urge has almost past by the time i boot up download and actually get in to play.

I think part of me just wants to buy a new shine

Edit - Brilliant find with the video Drac

[FunkyJ]

Originally Posted by Drac

Again with the casual?

Have you ever heard anyone refer to themselves as a "casual gamer"?

Waves furiously.

Even though I could kick your butt in any game you care to name (except FIFA... for some reason I'm really shit at that online!) and I know gaming inside and out, I consider myself a casual gamer.

I will buy certain franchises every release (The Sims including Sim City, Civ, FIFA, Magic the Gathering) but I won't rush out to buy the latest game. I want to, but I have other priorities. And I won't line up at launch for any console or game - Did that once, f*ck doing that again!

This is what I posted about the PS4 on my blog:

In regards to the PS4, I wouldn't be hatin' if they actually showed something worth being excited about. Videos of games? Vague statements of intent using buzzwords and memes?

F*CK OFF!

Imagine if BMW did this for the launch of their latest electric car - Just a moving road, and some power poles to reinforce the notion of "electricity", but not show the car, not show the interior, not show anything at all about the car. It would quite rightly be a joke.

This announcement was just a cynical ploy to build buzz on social media, so some f*ckwit in Marketing could say "we've got a million people hashtagging about #PS4" and justify his ridiculously huge salary.

From this (and all the other bullshit like Instagram's change in TOC going on) it's clear companies no longer care about providing information and solid products to consumers - as long as your flashy presentation gets 1 billion page views, that's doing your job as providing a product to the consumer.

We have a right, no, a duty, to call companies out on this kind of bullshit.

There is no doubt I will buy a next-gen console. But as a consumer I want to know
- How much it will cost.
- When will it be available.
- Will it run my old games and media content.
- Will it run on my current TV.
- Will it run on my current internet connection.
- What games will be available for launch.

If you don't or won't tell me these things, then don't tell me anything else about the damn thing, because everything else is irrelevant.

And don't spend millions of dollars trying to tell me about these irrelevant things when those millions of dollars can be going towards keeping the cost of the damn thing down!

To be honest, I don't really understand WHY they did this. Apart from attempting to boost their stock price ahead of the Tokyo fiscal year (which is in March) there was absolutely no substance to this presentation. Fanbois might get excited, but it's people like ME they really need to convince to buy the console this time around.

And I'm not convinced by this tactic. In fact, it makes me consider NOT buying it.

And if Xbox do it as well, I'll be equally furious.

[parso]

PS1 = cd player
PS2 = dvd player
PS3 = blu ray player
PS4 = um blu ray player again......try selling that to the wife

Both PS2 and PS3 must have found themselves in many households for these feature's alone. I wonder how many sony consoles were sold as entry level media players, and a gaming platform as a secondary/bonus feature? Ill be interested on the PS4's uptake early on.

Anyway as a few have mentioned Ill most likely buy once that killer exclusive comes out.

[Schizo]

Originally Posted by Drac

Pretty much the same as all other game console launches then?

Previous Sony consoles had additional incentive to be purchased at the time of release. The PS2 was just about the cheapest DVD player available at the time. The PS3 was just about the cheapest Blu-Ray player available at the time. It helped the consoles find their ways into homes that may not have necessarily had gaming consoles in them. People will try out some games, and you can easily turn some non-gamers into gamers just by virtue of having a box in the room that can play movies and also games.

Originally Posted by Drac

I knoew what all the "analysis" sites said, but I honestly think the PS3 broke even for the first few years and has been making a profit for longer than most realise.

Doubtful. Even with the purchasing power of buying components in bulk and leveraging these costs with suppliers, the PS3's cell processor was very expensive to produce and never really found its way into other devices to lower the costs. Even though this is all just speculation, I've yet to come across a single estimate that showed that Sony was breaking even on the console sales. Heck the 360 was in the same boat. I think the Wii was the only console of the previous generation that was sold at a break even or even slight profit point. Which brings us to..

Originally Posted by Drac

Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo take a cut of every single game sale for the platform, so even if they're still at break even on the hardware they're still making money in other places (and loosing in yet others areas, such as marketing and support).

Bingo. They have to sell the games, which is why they've brought on heavyweights like Bungie, Blizzard, and Square-Enix.

Originally Posted by Drac

Anyway, looking at just this aspect of a console is pointless, it's like looking at how long a particular kind of paint will last on a car you're about to purchase and claiming that if the paint will hold up for 20 years then nothing else on the car could possible break before then - things just aren't that simple.

Not really sure where you're going with this? If you are referring to the fact that I have a feeling this generation of consoles lifecycle is going to be much shorter than the current generation, I feel it is going to be shorter due to a number of factors:

• The gap of 7-8 years from the PS3, 360, and Wii to the PS4, 720(?), and WiiU was one of the longest so far between console generations. The usual turnaround has been closer to 5-6 years.
• I don't think this generation is going to be a big leap forward, but the next generation will likely have 4k support and will probably be a bigger jump. Who knows what else may be kicking around in 5 years?
• The previous gen consoles were equivalent of higher end PCs when designed. These designs seem to be only in the mid-PC world. They'll be outdated faster.

But those are all just speculative opinions.

Originally Posted by Drac

That being said, the launch price will be super important, and this is often an area in which Sony has been quite poor at.

Agreed. I think Sony realizes their debacle that was the PS3 launch. I don't think they're going to make the same mistake again (high launch price, dearth of launch games).

Originally Posted by Drac

Correct. A non-gamer would not buy a game console. Just like people with 20/20 vision don't buy corrective lenses.

No, they wouldn't. But they would buy a DVD player or a Blu-Ray player if they were cheaper than the alternatives on the market. The PS4 doesn't have much to entice a non-gamer to buy it. That's part of how the PS2 and PS3 gained entrance into many households.

Originally Posted by Drac

Not really getting your point here. Also, what's your definition of casual gamer, and why do you see it as bad that such casual people would not want a game console?

The hardcore fanbase is always going to be around to buy games, the casuals are the group that Sony wants to get more into gaming. Take a look at my fiancee. She isn't big into gaming. She enjoys it, but a game like God of War she is more content to watch me play than play herself. A game like Little Big Planet? I think she played that more than I did.

Casuals are a great market to tap into. Nintendo did it well with the Wii.

Originally Posted by Drac

Again with the casual?

Have you ever heard anyone refer to themselves as a "casual gamer"?

We have at least one self-professed in this thread

I have quite a few family members that would probably identify as casual.

Originally Posted by Drac

I also think you do a disservice to people's intelligence here. Show a PS3/4 screen shot comparison to any actual gamer and they'll see the difference, trust me.

Any actual gamer, yes. People who are trained to know the difference between game visual quality. My point is that Average Joe isn't going to see much of a difference. Is it better? Sure. Enough to warrant dropping whatever the purchase price of a new console ($300, $400?). Ehhh...it becomes a tough sell.

Originally Posted by Drac

Those differences look fairly large to me, I'd even say (aside from resolution) the PS1/2 differences were much less pronounced compare to the PS2/3.

I highly disagree, but that is my opinion and you have yours. I do feel though that you get a point of diminishing returns when to comes to things like poly count. A character made of only a few dozen polys is going to look pretty crap. A few hundred looks much better. A few thousand looks better. It is a logarithmic scale that will get better and better, but eventually where does the difference become negligible?

Dangit, there was a really good image I saw the other day illustrating this, and now I can't find it.

Originally Posted by Drac

I think hitting 1080P at 60fps + AA and with enough power to use lavishly complex shaders for every surface/polygon plus lots of physics/destruction and a ridiculous amount of particles and GPGPU goodness will really will open up a new world of eye candy. Sure it takes exponentially more power to keep upping the bar now but thankfully the hardware is actually exponentially more powerful.

It is a step forward, but this is not a big one. This is mid-end PC gear going into the PS4. Evolution rather than revolution.

Show casual Joe the Atari 2600 and the NES side by side and they can definitely tell the difference. A good PS2 game next to a so-so PS3 game? Maybe not so much.

Originally Posted by Drac

I'd say you're off the mark a bit here. Also, "the facebook crowd" is 100 million strong at last count. For the older gamers this may not be a huge selling point, but for many it is. The sharing and social aspects of the console is what had everyone in my office exited (we make games so suffice to say, everyone at the office plays a lot of games). Mostly because a lot of what we do involves sharing and discussing our gaming experiences and anything that makes that simpler and easier is a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

I think Facebook is evil, so I'm probably not their target market for this

Originally Posted by Drac

But does this really have any relevance to the platform? I mean, a console is just a means to access/play games. The main differences between the PS3/360 (aside from exclusives, of which there's generally enough on offer for either console in every genre) it's the services that allow you to connect to games and other gamers. IMO, 360 beats the pants off PS3 for this and Sony knows that, looks to me like they want to change it up and focus on getting people playing/sharing/discovering faster.

I'll agree with you that Microsoft's online play was generally better at matchmaking and such. However, Playstation's offerings have caught up. I don't think Micorsoft will be able to sell their services for $60 since Sony is doing much of the same for free.

Originally Posted by Drac

Personally I think Sony's new philosophy for what a good game platform should be is great, however, it'll all depend on how well it's executed. If Sony has a proven track record of anything it's their ability to over promise and under deliver. Remote play was meant to happen for the PS3 with the PSP, it didn't, along with a lot of other nice ideas that suffered from poor execution (like PlayStation Home).

Ugh, don't remind me!

Originally Posted by Drac

Why?

PS3 had terrible adoption out of the gate and despite being out a year less than the 360 it's sold worldwide an equal amount.

I'll say again, adoption rates mean everything for Sony this time around. The company is in a very vulnerable position right now. They are strapped for cash and their console division is just about one of the only positives they have going for them. The Vita (so far) has not been a terrible success. If Sony is taking a bath on each console sold, they need to be pushing games and fast to keep up the bottom line. If they produce the hardware a too high a cost, or lack games at launch, they are going to be losing money hand over fist. Not a good position for a company already in financial trouble to be in.

Microsoft and Nintendo have deep pockets - they can weather such things a bit more easily at the moment.

Originally Posted by Drac

I disagree with a lot of those for a lot of different reasons. 4K TVs really aren't that necessary for, well, anything except people who have enough cash to build their own private home theater with a 100"+ display. PC desktop resolutions haven't moved much in the past 5 years and there's a genuine befit to increase the resolution there as text display is still a primary function on the desktop. For TVs which focus on games/media 4K is really quite pointless - it's more a push by the TV companies trying to make you think you need another TV as they desperately try to keep profits up from the initial HDTV push.

Again, I disagree. You have your opinion, I have mine. The demo I got to see of a 4k television was stunning. Retina displays on tablets are all the rage. I think the push to 4k is going to be a big one (from a gaming standpoint).

Originally Posted by Drac

I'd be more worried about a single company dominating the console game market. Competition here is necessary, and because the competition is so fierce companies will take risks - some will be great, others will fail (it's ok Kinect, some children and weirdo hackers still love you) but I think those risks, both good and bad, are also necessary to keep the industry moving forward.

Agreed. I want the PS4 to succeed. I want cool games. I want choice.

Originally Posted by Drac

I guess I just have a different perspective on things.

And this is why I love going to the TOG boards because I can at least have a rational thought out conversation without hearing 'PS4 is going to be aw3some!!!!!!!!11111lol Ur jsut a hater!!!!'

What can I say? I love the history of consoles and watching the market