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Old 4th October 2010, 04:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation Togopian Economics

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Chapter 1; Currency Introduction
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I'll trade you one gold for that .. no? .. What about a diamond?? .. Some clay??? .. Gravel!?! .. You decide!

With all this talk about economic spawning restrictions and trade, we don't really know which currency would be the most suitable for the wider Togopian population. We all have our reasoning for believing one material is more applicable than another, but it's not in writing; and we haven't voted. This topic is to introduce our fiscal candidates, and discuss the pros and cons of their application.

To try and keep things orderly and easy to read (I'm lazy), please follow the format below.


Quote:
Suggested Currency: X

Reasoning: Y

Pros: Z

Cons: .. A?
Once we've all had our say; and a thorough discuss has been had, A final vote will be held in a new topic. The poll will be held in the public forums; but measures will be in place to stop voting by those not influenced by the decision. Also note that there will be an option to not have a currency; and these discussions are being held only to determine if so; and what.

If you want to discuss another suggested currency, do so by quoting the suggestion your post is in reference to. Try to be conservative in posting; it will make listing the candidates easier for me

Don't fret if the currency you wanted to suggest has already been posted. The more input we can get, the better! If you have any questions regarding this post, or any other of my posts, feel free to PM me.

Thanks!


Last edited by Vonder; 4th October 2010 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Suggested Currency: Gold (bars)

Reasoning: With reference to this chart, I believe gold to be of suitable scarcity to be applicable as a currency. Gold is a purely cosmetic material, and has no useful application; making it perfect.

Pros: Purely cosmetic, Scarce enough to be viable, Can not be mass produced (obsidian), Future updates will not influence its distribution in the economy (diamond tool durability being fixed).

Cons: May encounter problems with exchange rates in regards to diamond; being more common and of lesser (world) value.
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree with gold being used. The rarest resource is arguably Clay but since it's a building material I don't think it would be appropriate.

Gold makes the most sense for the reasons already stated - it's relatively scarce and serves no practical purpose at this time.
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Old 4th October 2010, 04:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Good idea
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Old 4th October 2010, 05:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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well id prefer a barter system, but that's impossible with item spawning so i would

Suggested Currecny: Iron (bars)

Reasoning: the most used resource in the game that is surprisingly rare to find in Minecraft alpha, forces people to choose between using iron for their own reasons or as a currency.

Pro's: Its common enough that every player can have some iron, meaning that it wont merely be those with the deepest mines that control the economy. but rare enough that the market wont be flooded, as would happen if the currency was say, glass. Also its lower overall value than gold or diamond means that it can be traded easier for lower level items such as wood or stone.

Con's: Someone building a iron heavy project (such as rail carts in the future) may find that they become currency poor, however thinking of that it does mean that they could trade some of their other resources for the iron required to finish the project.
and
It isn't as 'currency' like as gold (in terms of reasoning behind it).
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Old 4th October 2010, 05:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kazaar View Post
well id prefer a barter system, but that's impossible with item spawning so i would

Suggested Currecny: Iron (bars)

Reasoning: the most used resource in the game that is surprisingly rare to find in Minecraft alpha, forces people to choose between using iron for their own reasons or as a currency.


Pro's: Its common enough that every player can have some iron, meaning that it wont merely be those with the deepest mines that control the economy. but rare enough that the market wont be flooded, as would happen if the currency was say, glass. Also its lower overall value than gold or diamond means that it can be traded easier for lower level items such as wood or stone.


Con's: Someone building a iron heavy project (such as rail carts in the future) may find that they become currency poor, however thinking of that it does mean that they could trade some of their other resources for the iron required to finish the project.

and
It isn't as 'currency' like as gold (in terms of reasoning behind it).
A barter system and currency can co-exist perfectly, we don't have to choose between them.

On Iron though, I think it's too common to be viable. What we need in a currency is something scarce, (as per the economic model) and something that forces people to explore and go on mining ventures to obtain it. It it's too common, we'll be recreating an economic minecraft simulator of Zimbabwe, with inflation skyrocketing.

Scarcity forces a need for mining tools (once the game updates the durability bug) and equipment like TNT (Which will have an exchange rate for admin spawning), whilst still maintaining monetary flow.

Trading for 'lower level' items won't be a problem; they'll simply sell in bulk. Player control over the economy shouldn't be a problem in the short term; in that if a currency is legislated everyone will be given a controlled amount to begin with.
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Old 4th October 2010, 06:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think using gold as the indicator allows a perfect barter system. Clay is rarer than iron so lets say that 1 clay is worth 3 gold and 1 iron is worth 2 gold, it just means that in the barter economy for every 2 clays it may cost you 3 iron (or 6 gold if you have it).
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Old 4th October 2010, 07:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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well the problem is if we're having a state (admin) controlled gold reserve then we need a method of distribution,

you could have some kind of welfare system, or goods and services system but it would become incredibly complex very fast.

and the reason i say a true barter system wouldnt work is because you cannot barter with somebody that spawns the item, as it has no inherit value to them, and they wont be keeping the traded item anyway (otherwise it will make admins very resource rich)

if you are planning on a state controlled system then most likely yes gold would be the most efficient

however if you go for a completely freemarket system then we are likely to see a far more common, and more useful resource (such as iron) become the prominent currency.

much like how booze, ciggeretts, petrol. become currency during times of economic and social upheaval, rather than continuing with currency.
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Old 4th October 2010, 08:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My 2c

Unless I'm understanding this wrong, what we're talking about here is making a system where you "pay" in the currency to have an admin supply you with the item you want (eg TNT)? Payment goes to admin?

Gold currently has no use other than as a payment for something you want. So if admins are receiving gold for giving out things like TNT, then we're being left with secret hoards of gold that do nothing. It seems almost pointless to me - other than to be a way to limit the use of TNT etc. which could be limited in other ways - such as a monthly allowance or something.

Diamonds have a purpose (once tool breakage happens)... but are rare, and players will have more trouble finding diamonds. Trading in diamonds means the diamonds are stockpiled by admins - which can be useful. Diamond tools can then be supplied to those who need them for a non-diamond currency/swap - allowing more people the chance to mine if they haven't found diamonds themselves.

Clay is fairly rare but likewise has a purpose and is valuable to some. Iron is quite common, but again has a purpose (when tool breakage comes in).

It's all well and good to say this is a mining game and thus people should be required to mine to get the gold to be able to trade with, but we all play the game differently, and we all have different luck when it comes to finding stuff while mining. The same could be argued that it's a mining game, not a TNT blowing stuff up game :P - what appeals in this game to some will be different to what appeals to others, and we'd like to make it an appealing game for all.

I'd propose a system of values for Gold, Diamonds, Iron and Clay - based on the value of gold (eg work out that 1 gold is worth so many clay) With admins basically setting up a "bank" where traded items go. Then, for example... if someone trades gold for TNT, the gold goes in the bank. If someone wants gold in which to buy some TNT but doesn't have any gold, but they have clay - they can trade their clay for that value in gold, and use that to trade for TNT. So now the bank has both clay and gold. Then if someone really needs clay to build with, they can come and buy that from the bank. and so on.... So the bank becomes a useful thing

While iron has very little value as it's reasonably common and not very good for tools - when tool breakage comes in, there will be more people requiring it for tools, so it's value will increase - trading in a resource that does something, means that there are reserves of that resource to give access to other players who may not have lofty aspirations to trade for 40 blocks of TNT and might just desperately need an iron pick.

.....and if we're extending this to non-TNT items, and for everyday trades, then it's a bit sad IMHO..... when I started playing, I was given iron tools to start with - which was much appreciated...... later I was given diamond tools by people who obviously had enough resources to help out newbie players... which was even more appreciated..... I in turn have been able to make someone a diamond pick (alas, I've only found a handful of diamonds so far) and an iron shovel, and I've put my old iron tools in the general store for anyone who needs them... Many of us have given Vonder resources for his Vonderdome. This sort of thing helps build a community feeling I think...and this feeling of community is one of the things I find very appealing in the game. People giving to help someone out and not expecting payment in return is part of this. I'd hate for it to turn into a "well I'll give you a pick what are you going to give me" type thing.

Last edited by Obsi; 4th October 2010 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 4th October 2010, 08:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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This is a very interesting paper on POW camp economics I happened to find one day (funny how you can find the weirdest things on the internet). I'm not even interested in economics

Economics of POW Camp

They had cigarettes for currency and it seemed to work acceptably well. I think our counterpart would be coal. It's easy to find, but also used in large quantities. I know I have a hard time finding enough for my needs.

Then again using gold is pretty nice as well, finally gives a purpose for that useless item
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