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Old 2nd March 2011, 08:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Server upgrade policy

Now that the client allows you to delay updates, how about creating a policy where we don't upgrade the server until the mods for the next version are ready? That way we will never have to be on the temp servers

In that case we should also store the working client somewhere where everyone can get it in case one upgrade ones own client by misstake.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 08:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Now that the client allows you to delay updates, how about creating a policy where we don't upgrade the server until the mods for the next version are ready? That way we will never have to be on the temp servers
I would take part of that as a given. If MC still works, we don't change it until everything can be updated (or enough to be able to safely play). The only reason that the temp worlds were set up was that we relied on mods for things like the whitelist and antigriefing measures. The temp worlds were firstly sacrificial if needed, and secondly good testing grounds for updated mods. I have been testing the collections of mods and Bukkit at home, but I can only test so much. The present mods include a number that are "unofficial" versions by alternate developers because the original developer has withdrawn. I would prefer to have to test this on the test world/s rather than have things freeze or mess up on the main worlds. The testing doesn't take long. For instance, I added the mods on Sunday and by the end of this week, I aim to update the main servers. If in the future we can delay the initial shift to the test worlds, then all this will be much shorter than it presently is. Hopefully, not all updates will need to be tested like this either.

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In that case we should also store the working client somewhere where everyone can get it in case one upgrade ones own client by misstake.
Hopefully Mojang will provide this means themselves. Otherwise, yes we might have to think about the legalities of providing versions of the MC client.

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Old 2nd March 2011, 09:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DaedalusAlpha View Post
Now that the client allows you to delay updates, how about creating a policy where we don't upgrade the server until the mods for the next version are ready? That way we will never have to be on the temp servers

In that case we should also store the working client somewhere where everyone can get it in case one upgrade ones own client by misstake.
Sounds great to me!

All reasons for downtime aside, I'd much rather that whenever there is an update, we keep the working server config rather then change to temp for a week or two.

Incidentally, I backed up 1.2 thinking that this might have been the case! I remember we talked about it before the last update.

If there is a great new feature that we are all hungry for, lets take it from there, talk about it on the forums etc. I'm sure if we're all aware of the risks we can handle a freeze or two (If we use an interim mod update/stop gap measure) But thats a discussion for another thread.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would take part of that as a given. If MC still works, we don't change it until everything can be updated (or enough to be able to safely play).
Had been thinking along this line myself after the option to update was placed into the hands of players themselves.
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I would prefer to have to test this on the test world/s rather than have things freeze or mess up on the main worlds.
Given that Sorontar has been pretty much single-handedly managing the mods and upgrades lately, I'll be guided by him on whether he feels we need a short period of testing on the test worlds when game / mod updates are released. As he indicated some updates will most likely require less testing than others.
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Hopefully Mojang will provide this means themselves. Otherwise, yes we might have to think about the legalities of providing versions of the MC client.
I'll see if I can sound them out on what their position is likely to be in regards to this. I can't knowingly enable the division to provide a re-distribution service contrary to any licensing / copyright restrictions that Mojang wish to enforce as it places TOG in a compromising position.
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I'll see if I can sound them out on what their position is likely to be in regards to this. I can't knowingly enable the division to provide a re-distribution service contrary to any licensing / copyright restrictions that Mojang wish to enforce as it places TOG in a compromising position.
If it isn't ok I'm sure I could sneak out a copy on my own private server, and if you guys happen to "find" that link somewhere TOG can't be blamed right?
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Old 2nd March 2011, 11:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I've emailed Daniel Kaplan, their Business Developer, to explain the situation and, without posting the whole email, ask:
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1. Does Mojang intend to provide download access to the prior version of the beta for a short time following an update, to cater for this sort of situation?
2. If not, would TOG be authorised to host for it's whitelisted members a copy of the previous beta version to cater for this transition period?
We'll see what response we get back.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 10:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DaedalusAlpha View Post
If it isn't ok I'm sure I could sneak out a copy on my own private server, and if you guys happen to "find" that link somewhere TOG can't be blamed right?
This sort of thing happens anyway, I've seen a number of MC Forum posts where people mention they have backed up versions theyd be willing to share on request. These usually pop-up shortly after game-breaking updates, such as the switch to 1.3 where no Macs could run the game until the 1.3_01 fix came in.

While i've never seen a mod slap-down on things like this it is definatly in TOGs interest to get an official standpoint from Mojang before we consider such an idea.

On the original topic of the server upgrades I feel things are handled well as it is. Having test worlds to fiddle about with until we are sure the new round of mods are stable is probably for the best.
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Old 3rd March 2011, 10:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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While i've never seen a mod slap-down on things like this it is definatly in TOGs interest to get an official standpoint from Mojang before we consider such an idea.
It's a case of avoiding TOG or Father being exposed to what fundamentally is a breach of the published Terms and Conditions / Copyright:

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The one major rule
Do not distribute anything I've made. This includes the client and the server software for the game. This also includes modified versions of anything I've made. In order to maintain control of the project, I need all game downloads to come from a single central source. I hope you understand.

To be honest I can't see Mojang realistically following through on enforcement, except in cases where people are making changes or promoting old versions for exploit purposes etc. I'm bound however in the role of DC from knowingly breaching the published terms (whether they'll be enforced or not), and hosting unauthorised versions here.



I'm sure people are quite capable of helping out a mate if it came to it though.
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Old 4th March 2011, 02:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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On the original topic of the server upgrades I feel things are handled well as it is. Having test worlds to fiddle about with until we are sure the new round of mods are stable is probably for the best.
I don't agree with this.

Sure I think it's a good idea to test the mods on a temporary server first. But this shouldn't take more than maybe 2-3 days. As it is now however it feels more like we're on normal servers 4 weeks, then on temp servers 2-3 weeks, then back on normal 4 weeks again, and so on. We're almost as much on the temp servers as on the normal servers, and that just results in the temp servers not being temp servers anymore. What would happen if a temp server got nuked due to a bad mod if people see it as another primary server and has put a lot of effort into it?

I don't want to put too much effort into the temp server for this reason, which results in me only being able to seriously play roughly 50% of the time.

Note that I'm not complaining about our server admins, I fully understand that this stuff takes time, mods having to be updated and so on. I just want to be able to play minecraft on the primary server as much as possible. The easiest way to do that is to stay on the previous version until the new one is ready for use. That way we also take some load off the admins so they don't feel they have to get a new server up as quickly as possible. Less stress for everyone involved
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Old 4th March 2011, 10:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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[cut lots of arguments about why we need the test worlds for testing, because I have reread DAlpha's email]

As I said previously, I like the possibility in being able to delay upgrades to MC itself. That will be helpful, but sometimes we need do the testing. For that we can set no definite time limit.

Hopefully, I will be updating the main servers tonight (Survival then Creative). I have no idea when I will be finished as it will need the world data transformed into the new format, which may take some time. Keep an eye on http://www.theoldergamers.com/forum/...formation.html if you are wondering how I am going (if at all).

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