Pruning the map

[Sp!at]

I guess I'm in the camp of players who enjoy the process of building/exploring rather than enjoying the result of building/exploring so when I play single player I usually start again every few days.

As such I'd support starting the survival server from scratch every month - but I think there would be other players who would hate that idea. Notch wrote an article yesterday on the process of chunk creation and I was thinking it would be great to be able to remove chunk portions from the map but still leave the heavily built areas.

Introducing the Chunk Removal Tool. This tool would allow us to protect chunks close to spawn and remove the others. Or even to surgically remove smaller portions of the map so we can start again without starting from scratch. Then when we move back into the blank portion, the chunks will randomise and rebuild.

Is this a possibility?

[DaedalusAlpha]

Question: If you like exploration, why not just do it in singleplayer exclusively? I personally can't see what more you get out of it on a multiplayer server? Per definition of exploration you will never be close to anyone or anything previously explored, so you're essentially playing singleplayer anyway? Or am I missing something?

[Sp!at]

There are a number of reasons I enjoy playing on the online server. My nephews have joined the server now so I enjoy spending on-line time with them. I also like the community aspect of having other TOGgers playing at the same time. It's cool seeing the projects others are working on - but once they're finished it isn't like you keep going back to see what they look like any more.

Does anyone keep going back to their previous projects on the servers? I know I don't. I enjoy planning and building any given project and then I enjoy admiring the finished result for a few minutes once it is done - but after that its 'What's next?'.

The Creative server is for keeps but the survival server can and will take damage. A case in point; I had built an elaborate redstone circuit that combined pressure plates and levers to open iron doors. After I finished I left a small portion in the mechanism a bit too dark and a creeper spawned there, blowing up a large portion of the work. So why not have portions reset every so often?

On the Australian Gamers server they ran a poll to see who would like to start fresh and 85% wanted to. By protecting the spawn area and allowing people who want to keep projects to build in that area it would provide a best of both worlds.

[BlackD]

I'm a "new guy" round these parts, so speaking from limited experience here - feel free to dismiss it if that lack experience is causing me to speak out of place.

I came to the online server specifically FOR the perpetuity of it. I spent all day yesterday building a road from my new abode back towards TOG-central - around 8000 blocks in that alone so far. It just seems to me that there is SO MUCH land, that I can't see why a server reset would be necessary just because one is over a project they're working on..

Isn't it easy enough to just go and start a new project somewhere else? And if you want to remove your "impact" on the world and start again, I believed there were some simple chunk renewal commands in the worldedit mod for Bukkit? "Hey admin, can you renew chunks 144 & 145?" etc. I thought the problem with the AusGamer servers is that they were too crowded on the surface, hence the restart - whereas we only have about 1% of the surface developed?

I dunno - like I said - I'm new. Maybe there's some part of the big picture here I'm missing. Or maybe, I'm just being selfish - lol. It's just when I finish building my Underground Kingdom of Awesome, I wouldn't like it to be wiped out. :\

[Misnik]

Looking at the render we have barely built on the survival servers overall size. I would hazard a guess that we've at best filled 1/4-1/3 of the actual land space. With several chunks that haven't been spawned yet.

I prefer to see the the server stay this way until we at least are all building to or on the borders. At that point maybe consider something. Though I feel thats still a good long while away.

[Sp!at]

Originally Posted by BlackD

I'm a "new guy" round these parts, so speaking from limited experience here - feel free to dismiss it if that lack experience is causing me to speak out of place.

I came to the online server specifically FOR the perpetuity of it. I spent all day yesterday building a road from my new abode back towards TOG-central - around 8000 blocks in that alone so far. It just seems to me that there is SO MUCH land, that I can't see why a server reset would be necessary just because one is over a project they're working on..

Isn't it easy enough to just go and start a new project somewhere else? And if you want to remove your "impact" on the world and start again, I believed there were some simple chunk renewal commands in the worldedit mod for Bukkit? "Hey admin, can you renew chunks 144 & 145?" etc. I thought the problem with the AusGamer servers is that they were too crowded on the surface, hence the restart - whereas we only have about 1% of the surface developed?

I dunno - like I said - I'm new. Maybe there's some part of the big picture here I'm missing. Or maybe, I'm just being selfish - lol. It's just when I finish building my Underground Kingdom of Awesome, I wouldn't like it to be wiped out. :\

First off, it doesn't matter how long or short you've been around. Your comments are as important and valid as anyone else's.

Are you referring to the Creative server or the Survival server? I also had a quick look at the Bukkit settings but can't find a reference on resetting chunks. Would be awesome if it did.

Originally Posted by Misnik

Looking at the render we have barely built on the survival servers overall size. I would hazard a guess that we've at best filled 1/4-1/3 of the actual land space. With several chunks that haven't been spawned yet.

I prefer to see the the server stay this way until we at least are all building to or on the borders. At that point maybe consider something. Though I feel thats still a good long while away.

I'm not thinking we need to really consider it yet but the Creative server filled up fairly quickly and seemed to explode in size over a few short weeks. Would be nice to know the long term plans.

[Sorontar]

Two things. We have already shrunk the Creative world once by deleting chunks and setting a formal border. There were various reasons for that but it is still massive compared to a lot of maps I have seen for other servers (and we have a lot less players). Whether the Creative world is supposed to be permanent or not, it will take ages to fill (even if Manuzza keeps building massive inverted pyramids).

Secondly, the survival world is relatively new. It was only started in December and had a defined border from early on. The border is a lot smaller than the Creative world, simply because we anticipated it to be harder for players to travel around far from spawn if there was no warp ability (and nasty monsters to kill you). We don't expect that you will need or want to travel 5000 blocks away from spawn. The border was slightly expanded once to help people find new blocks but there is still plenty of unexplored land. There are still plenty of places to get lost in.

Therefore, if you want to move elsewhere and start new constructions/mines you can in both worlds.

[Obsi]

I used to be vehemently opposed to deleting our worlds... because there is some really cool stuff that would be sad to see gone... But I must admit, my thoughts are changing...

I also never thought I'd want to play on survival.... the thought of not being able to go out at night, having your stuff exploded, and being killed and having to run back and collect your stuff seemed completely unfun to me..... but now I seem to spend more time there than I do on creative..... Partly because there aren't many people about on creative... partly because that extra challenge of potential death is kinda fun, and actually needing to grow wheat for a purpose and stuff makes for more depth..... but mostly I suppose it's because we've had such big patches of being on the temp servers, and I didn't feel inspired to build much on temp, but now the "proper" worlds are back, I've lost the momentum I had with my projects... I remember trying to mark off a border for a grand new extension to my land on creative... but now I can't remember what I'd planned to do there (and it can't be for a giant AT-AT.. as that would need to be in the snow ) Much as I'd hate to see everything on there go, I no longer think it would be a bad thing to start again (with a smaller world) on creative...

(don't kill me Bazz )

Which is strange for me, as I'm usually one to keep tinkering with things to infinity because I'm never satisfied they are "finished" yet... So I agree, I do get more enjoyment out of working on stuff and once it's done then I'm a bit lost as to what to do next.... other than to just go off and build something else... just to have something to do... and leave a bunch of buildings in your wake that you'll never go back to.... and have to travel out further and further to find more space to build/mine... But then again I suppose that's the main purpose of the game - build something, then go build something else - just because you can... and it's fun

The problem with just clearing the slate each month or so though would be that we'd have the same "temporary" feel that we had on the temp servers.... there is no point building anything elaborate because it's all going to go.. so then what? do you even bother? The permanency of the world is what makes you want to build something time consuming, because you know you'll be able to do it. Ultimately I agree it would be nice to have a clean slate and the excitement of starting new.... but I think it would be unpopular and probably not good for our division.

See, if we'd thought about it before starting the SMP, we could have sectioned off a large part of the world, and declared that to be a temporary space where the chunks get deleted every so often, so that we have the best of both worlds. I don't know how easy that would be to achieve now though, given that people tend to spread out in all directions...

[BlackD]

Originally Posted by Sp!at

Are you referring to the Creative server or the Survival server? I also had a quick look at the Bukkit settings but can't find a reference on resetting chunks. Would be awesome if it did.

Hey, just in relation to this, I was referring to the WorldEdit plugin for Bukkit: http://wiki.bukkit.org/WorldEdit

It's basically a mod for editing and replacing chunks en masse for instance if you want to renew an area.

edit: nevermind, reading through all the documentation (it has a lot of other functions) the Chunk tool is the one thing that has not yet been updated for 1.3. sigh lol

[Sp!at]

@BlackD: I don't think the delete chunks function in Bukkit is working yet for 1.3. But I guess that is just a matter of time. It looks good though if it will work.

I wonder if (and I'm really only thinking down the track for the SMP server) we can locate areas on a map based on where people have placed their /home and use that initially as a no-go zone as far as deletion is concerned. Coupled with that could be using a log to discount people who haven't logged in for a couple of months (if that's possible). Also, filtering chunks by torch presence would highlight the larger un-touched areas of the map that could be reset.