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Old 27th January 2012, 01:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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All for another one as you know, just out of interest - who was victorius last night?
The law or the Kelly gang?
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Old 27th January 2012, 01:31 PM   #22 (permalink)
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That's in the picture thread :P but the Kelly gang won - with HenriDeacon blowing up the flag
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Old 27th January 2012, 01:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The idea was good and generally people had fun, but certainly needs some ironing out. Thanks again for the preparation and running of the event.

Some things needing more thought:

-Identification: not everyone was wearing a helmet at all times, so a bit uncertain to know who to attack, or if there were enemies or friends in your base, I suspect the Kelly member just walked through Law fort with us just thinking, oh he died and hasn't put on a gold helmet yet (as there was always people in our fort without gold helmets). Iron helmets aren't all that distuingishable, especially if the skin is white. Team skins are the obvious answer, but definitely means it would be harder for drop-ins to play. It would require people to prepare beforehand. I myself decided with about 2 or 3 mins to go, to actually participate. The other possibility is playername tags of different colours, but again it would be difficult to do with dropins I imagine.

-Weaponry: Clearly gold vs iron weaponry is a big turnoff. I didn't bother leaving the fort with a gold sword. I tried to kill 2 pigs when the game started, and my sword ran out before I even killed the 2nd pig. Identical weaponry please.

-Clearer understanding of goals: I had no idea what it was we were trying to achieve in the building of the forts, and decided to mine for most of it. Once I understood you were basically creating a maze to the chest, and blocks couldnt be placed nor destroyed, then I understood how to contribute to construction, but was too late in the 30 mins to do much.

-Separate communication channels: People had ideas but wouldn't say them because they would have been giving away their plans. 2 mumble chans needed. Means those without mumble can't contribute their plans though. Use targeted chat (pm) (if this works) to tell a team member maybe.

-Dropping of killed enemy's items: Whilst noble an idea, stopping mid-battle to sift through items and drop them, caused problems. I was firing arrows at duck (I think), not realising what he was doing. I did hear voiceover saying someone was dropping stuff, don't shoot me, but had no idea it was that person. Given we were firing at each other a short time earlier, we can't stop fighting because you killed someone else and wanted to drop items. Have a large supply of common weapons from the outset. If you lose items in death, too bad. Go to the weapon supply on death and restock. Or the initial stash contains stone weapons, and your team can mine for improvements.

-Mobs: They were simply a nuisance, and detracted from the game. Being killed by an enderman, going about my business mining and building was annoying. Couldn't fight back with a gold sword.

-Starting items: Now that we are more familiar with the concept, debate what a good list of starting items would be: food, building supplies, weapons

Anyway there's some things to think about, and are not meant as a criticism, just constructive feedback to make the play more cohesive and fun.

Cheers,
Max
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Old 27th January 2012, 03:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I'm not sure what to do about identification.... I don't know if there are mods that change the colours of the nameplates, I googled and found this - PVP Arena v0.5.10.1 - Bukkit which mentions that "spout" (Spout - Bukkit) might do that .... but if we're going to do it only one night, it seems a lot of work to track down and install mods (the server, being only up for a couple of hours, wasn't modded).... and all clients would appear to have to be modded too... which is too much to ask people to do.

Quote:
-Clearer understanding of goals: I had no idea what it was we were trying to achieve in the building of the forts, and decided to mine for most of it. Once I understood you were basically creating a maze to the chest, and blocks couldnt be placed nor destroyed, then I understood how to contribute to construction, but was too late in the 30 mins to do much.
I appologise that I didn't mention the no destroying/using blocks earlier... I figured there was no real point building a fort if someone could walk up behind with a pick and just tunnel in though... or bash through any internal walls you put up..... but given I had 2 days to create the map and rules, that was one thing that got neglected in the rules

Also, I'd not thought about the enemy building stuff to get to the flag, but in game that was mentioned and decided not to be allowed either, again for obvious reasons that otherwise they can just bring some dirt and build a bridge/stairs to somewhere and defeat the idea of your fortress.

You didn't have to make a maze (though doing so increases the time the enemy is in your fort - thus increasing the time you have to be able to stop them), but the idea was to make your fortress in whatever way you wanted to that would make it difficult for the enemy to get to the TNT - which I did say in the rules and on the signs. I'm sure there are plenty of non-maze ways to do that... so long as it is possible for people to get through - that means they have to be able to get to the TNT without having to destroy/build anything.... no using iron doors without switches/levers/buttons (and no piston crushers etc.) - the path can be difficult, but must still be possible and reasonable.

Quote:
-Separate communication channels: People had ideas but wouldn't say them because they would have been giving away their plans. 2 mumble chans needed. Means those without mumble can't contribute their plans though. Use targeted chat (pm) (if this works) to tell a team member maybe.
The fact we had some mumblers and some non-mumblers didn't help too, as some talk happened in mumble that the non-mumblers didn't hear, and some happened it chat, which some people possibly didn't pay attention to...

1 person mentioned using 2 channels early on, and nobody really seemed keen.... I guess it's always the hard thing to decide if you want to have separate coms for each team or not. If you do go separate you don't hear everyone and get involved in any general chat stuff, joking and so on - there are a lot of times when opposing team members were talking to each other, and it would be a shame if that sort of community feel was to not happen because you're only talking to half the people in game... and it makes it harder for whoever is running it to know what's going on, as they would have to flit between both channels..... It's a shame we don't have the ability to use in game voice as well as mumble, like you do in something like TF2...as that's the best of both worlds.

At the end of the day, it's a game (within a game) not really that serious, and if there is anything super secret, you could always write it on a sign. But if people want us to use 2 mumble channels next time, I'm sure that can be arranged.

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-Dropping of killed enemy's items: Whilst noble an idea, stopping mid-battle to sift through items and drop them, caused problems.
Well I guess that's down to interpreting the rules... Because of the separate armour/weapons, I'd intended just for people to not to pick up any armour/weapons they weren't supposed to have.... So if you killed an enemy, take all their stuff, but leave the armour/weapons you're not allowed to have. If you were killed and your armour/weapons lost, you could try to go back and see if they remained, but you'd likely be ambushed so it's probably best to just get new ones... There was 64 gold and 64 iron blocks, as well as 3 sets of armour hidden in the village... which I thought would be plenty to keep everyone in armour

I didn't mean for people to have to stand there and sift through if they were in the middle of battle, and I certainly didn't mean for the entire enemy inventory to be returned to them....

Quote:
-Starting items: Now that we are more familiar with the concept, debate what a good list of starting items would be: food, building supplies, weapons
The map has been modified to include 2 chests of armour in the starting bunker (and some pork) and 2 chests of armour in each fort base - both sides having iron swords and iron ingots with which to craft more (or other things). I've added a small amount of food to the chests in the forts, but the idea was that you're going to need food ASAP when build time is over - for that extra challenge...

Neither team actually used all of the building supplies I'd provided. Both teams had (for memory) 3 stacks stone brick, 3 stacks cobble, 3 stacks logs (which in turn makes several stacks of planks), 1 stack planks, 1 stack glass 1 stack sand, 1 stack coloured wool..... So mining and gathering dirt (that both teams did) wasn't actually needed...

I've also now modified the forts so that there is a 3 high wall (with window holes and a doorway) around the bedrock square, so your first 3 layers of build are done for you, and you can focus on inside and additional levels.... Since there was some disagreement over whether or not creating moats and jumping puzzles to get into the fort was fair... we'll try next one without that, so building is only to be done inside your walls... surrounding land around your fort cannot be modified (if you need to mine, make a small mine at the back of your fort.)

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Anyway there's some things to think about, and are not meant as a criticism, just constructive feedback to make the play more cohesive and fun.
That's cool
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Old 27th January 2012, 05:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Again, had a great time last night. Always up for some PvP madness
I thought the map was great, really lucked out with that seed and the villages.
The work Obsi and mini Obsi did to get the forts and flags together was awesome too.
Out of curiosity, have you guys seen the Vechs super hostile maps? Specifically the race for wool and capture the wool series? Alot of the little niggles we had are negated by the fact the teams are in seperate " lanes ". Granted, the combat is ranged, with bows and cannons, but that also takes away the sword and armour problem.
No Dig at Obsi's map at all, like I said I'd gladly play that again and again in a heartbeat, they're both differnet styles of play really, just after how well it went and how much fun everyone seemed to have might be worth having a crack at one of those or taking some inspiration from,

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Old 27th January 2012, 05:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think I know what you're talking about, I saw one where they had identical (mirrored) lanes of play (the world was just those 2 lanes) and they had to race the other team to the other end and there were mobs and cannons and arrows to make it more difficult. I think it looks like a lot of fun and I think we should try and download or make one to play through one day too.
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Old 27th January 2012, 07:15 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I personally feel the swords were not fair, gold armour with iron swords to me is a good idea.

I feel the rules were ok, but did need a little more work but hey who cares, the mobs were not bad I liked it, and yes max you were shooting me, but retox attacked me anyway lol
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Old 27th January 2012, 07:20 PM   #28 (permalink)
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That was a great night, thanks Obsi. Good to see such a big turnout.
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Old 27th January 2012, 07:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Maybe you could use gold and wood swords? I think they have the same durability, but they are also major crappy
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Old 27th January 2012, 08:26 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I was taking heaps of photos last night, but when I checked my Screenie folder it was empty. I had been pressing Printscreen all night instead of F2 !
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