Edit: Oops, became a wall of text sorry.
That's fine Gedarn, I didn't take any of it personally. We just have distinctly differing opinions of what is going on at a base level. There is no excuse for unethical behaviour. One doesn't have to agree with another's actions just because they understand them.
The story ending comment was an imperfect analogy due to the complexities of other mods being involved it's true. Gregtech's presence (in my experience and research) doesn't prevent their use if you configure it to not overwrite the recipes. Occasionally there's been missing config options, or ones that don't work for a time. But the flip side is that after these occasions, requests were made and new versions of Gregtech released that fixed or added said options.
I'm not an apologist for his behaviour in adding a crash condition to his mod when recipes are changed outside of the mod loading phases. There are more adult ways to handle such a situation. What I am doing is defending the default behaviour of the mod. It shouldn't be a part of the argument and it is. As for trustworthy-ness, Greg isn't the only one who has done something unethical. Everyone has their own line in the sand.
This reeks of one of those 'but he hit me first' situations whereby each party perceives some wrong that pre-dates their own actions and believes justifies their response. TC seemed to think it appropriate to circumvent Gregtech regardless of what the user wanted by forcing the game to load a vanilla recipe back in, and Gregtech seemed to think it appropriate to 'protect' users by crashing their game when recipe hacks were detected. Then you bring up pumpkin heads and helms and I'm sure if I bothered to do research there will be something behind that, and then something behind that. Childish and worthy of recrimination for sure.
You asked how is it ok for Gregtech to be the mod it is, Gedarn. I hope the rest of this post will help you understand my position:
Last version I looked through the configs, everything appeared to be configurable. All the hard-mode could be undone, recipes restored and/or blocked, and machine behaviours tweaked, with even some world-gen of ores configurable. This sort of configurability is to be lauded as you can have his mod and eat everyone else's cake if you wish. It just defaults to Greg's vision of balance. Greg's tech tree is not the only one that is allowed when on a server with 99 other mods. It defaults to the Greg umbrella of balance, but can be tuned down by the server owner.
I currently cannot support the arguement that it's bad or reprehensible that Gregtech incorporates an attempt to balance and tweak other mods to make one unifying tech tree experience. In the past, I've sought such mods across a variety of games where modding is avaialble and you end up with a bunch of fun but uneven mods being used at once. The whole reason this sort of attack on Gregtech and its base functions makes me uncomfortable enough to make these comments, is that I've never heard it claimed that they (wider mod community across all games) were arrogant to do so in the past.
Making balance tweaks to vanilla and other mod recipes and then sharing them is not arrogant or wrong. It is just creative. When I or anyone in a band plays a cover of a song, and improvises an extra or new solo, sings an extra chorus or a tweaked melody, etc then we're not arrogant or wrong. When a movie comes out that is a remake of your favourite film, but scenes are different, events have changed, it is not arrogant or wrong. It is, however, arrogant and wrong to take it upon yourself to crash the game when post-load recipe hacks are detected. I would prefer to see the unethical actions of the individuals involved as the sole points of contention, without all the 'he said, she said' to and fro along with it.
We are only 'forced' to use any mod if it is required to be able to play on a server with it installed. I personally enjoy the mod and it's goals, but I too think that due to the divisionary nature it inspires everywhere (not just in this thread,) it is moving further and further from TOG space.
Last edited by OranjeJus; 24th July 2013 at 11:50 AM.