Mmo's in general

[merwood]

I know this ain't exactly a happy topic but i just wanna get people opinions on mmo's in general .

I for one am basically bored right now of mmo's , Reason is that to me mmo's just don't stand out anymore like they did almost 10 years ago with eq 1 and dark age of camelot and star wars galaxies city of heroes and even online .

I have been playing mmo's since 2001 my first was dark age of camelot my first ever high fantasy rpg which i still have alot of great memories . But over the years the more mmo's that came out have left me with a stagnant taste in my mouth .

Why i don't know maybe it's because i have set my expectations to high or maybe it's because when you play too many hack and slash mmos like wow , vanguard warhammer lotro eq 2 .

Currently i was playing vanguard for just over a month but today i realized that mmo's are just play boring to me now too many high fantasy mmo's so i have basically decided to leave mmo's for a good while .

Why i feel like this it's because to me the mmo's that have been out since wow came flying out of the gate is their not unique anymore we have too many mmo's of one genre and eventually it takes a toll on you .

I hope that next year will be a new birth of mmo's from star trek online to dc universe online and star wars the old republic cause i think that is really needed as of now due to the last 10 years of mmo's have been basically high fantasy with maybe star wars galaxies eve online and city of heroes been the only exception .

As for me well right now my sights are right now set on jump gate evolution and i hope it has a major success cause if it doesnt then i will most likely be waiting till next year .

So anyways that's where i stand on mmo's or have for the last 5 years , So ym question to tog is what is your opinion on mmo's do you feel bored and in what ways ? What do you think game devleopers need to improve on in terms of their mmo vision and what do you want to see more of ?

By the way just want to apologize if i posted this in the wrong section lol

[hipcheck]

I think the paradigm has become too expensive. there have been some huge successes like WoW, and hence a ton of imitators... but in the meantime, budgets have swollen and like Hollywood, it becomes less about quality and originality, and more about just duplicating a previously-profitable experience. whereas in the past, there was room for producers to try new stuff and take some shots in the dark, now there's less room for that because the big money is on the phone telling them to just ship the damn game.

also, as you say, you've seen a lot and spent a lot of time on it, and perhaps you've just worn yourself out. maybe some time off isn't a bad idea. or maybe you should do some research and see what TOGgers that have similar interests are enjoying.

for me, I would have to totally love the subject matter (Matrix, LotR, Star Wars) in order to just jump into something, and still, I didn't get into Galaxies because I heard it was a misfire. so I look for friends who are playing and staying, and content that's going to keep rolling out, and publishers with good track records.

as for features, I'd say that's an individual call. for me, the best MMO so far was Lineage 2 -- difficult, optional PvP, some hand-eye coordination required, and your actions actually affect the game world... but way too much grinding, too many farmers, and eventually it just takes way too long to level.

[Reoh]

When MMORPGs first launched, all they had to do to be special was work. To be able to run around in these open expansive worlds (which incidentally appear to be shrinking), with all those other players running around to group up and have adventures. They were nothing but mob grinding to level fests and we loved them. New MMORPGs were rare, a new launch was huge in our small corner of the internet; everyone knew about it and spoke about it. Now there's so many that most of them launch without anybody knowing it, only a few high profile titles really get noticed much.

As these first MMORPGs were launching, they included special new features to attract markets. Trying to resolve the issues from the previous generations. Some of these innovations worked, while others needed more refinement. Then WOW hit it big. WOW did a lot of great things, like opening the genre up to the mainstream which instituted a flood of imitators.

So where are we now? We have a well defined genre, we join games and start comparing them to immediately point out what they don't have, or rather should have, in our expectations. Then maybe one or two 'twists' that make this one 'special' (eg, Warhammers RVR and city raiding, to a lesser degree public quests too).

What MMORPGs desperately need, is the mythical 'wow killer' (even if its released by blizzard). Something that redefines a stymying setting. And yes, I'm very eager to see the new mmorpgs coming out. Not just some new sci fi's, but post apocalyptics, crime styles, what I'm particularly interested in exploring are the new action mmorpgs, particularly the marriage of FPS and MMORPG's.

You can't grow a new niche, by being a pale copy of another game. You can't pull people away from that other game to level up in yours, when they'll invariably go back to where they've already invested themselves so thoroughly in their last.

[Lurch]

Originally Posted by Reoh

What MMORPGs desperately need, is the mythical 'wow killer' (even if its released by blizzard).

You know there is only ONE thing that can kill WoW... aside from WoW itself...

[hipcheck]

"My god. This could mean the end of the world. Of Warcraft."

(lol, great toon, Lurch)

Reoh, what was that game that came out a few years ago that was an MMOFPS? Planetfall or something? it sounded great, but I didn't find anyone that loved it. and incidentally, I'd much rather have FPS action than (to me) dull auto-combat.

[Reoh]

Originally Posted by hipcheck

"My god. This could mean the end of the world. Of Warcraft."

(lol, great toon, Lurch)

Reoh, what was that game that came out a few years ago that was an MMOFPS? Planetfall or something? it sounded great, but I didn't find anyone that loved it. and incidentally, I'd much rather have FPS action than (to me) dull auto-combat.

Yes Planetside, andmore recently Tabula Rasa (which didn't do so well). Hopefully the new games will prove better, I hear planetside was great but I didn't play that myself; so yes it has been explored before now that you mention it.

I really liked what I "thought" I heard about champions online and their action combat. Using an ability briefly "quick bolt", hold the button down "powerful bolt" etc. Makes the player feel more attuned to what the character is doing, rather than just button mashing. This way you can get more ability "uses" out of each!

[BloodyBandage]

I think designers need to stop worry about a "WoW killer" and just make a great unique game...the problem is trying to compete with WoW when they have that much market leverage is suicide..the best way to compete with them is to not compete with them (if that makes sense) and just move laterally into a different niche.

[Reoh]

Originally Posted by BloodyBandage

I think designers need to stop worry about a "WoW killer" and just make a great unique game...the problem is trying to compete with WoW when they have that much market leverage is suicide..the best way to compete with them is to not compete with them (if that makes sense) and just move laterally into a different niche.

Well then you either have the people that try, and end up being "clones" (and lets not forget, back before the 'wowkiller' we just had others like the 'eqkiller' etc), or niche games that launch big and quickly lose most of their subs.

You're right though, in that developers should just make games that are fun, work well, and its the innovating that really catches players imaginations.

[sschrupp]

Here's my take on MMOs and our generation that started out with EQ, AC, UO, etc. and why we're all getting bored and can't seem to find the right game to stick with for more than a few months. I think there's basically 3 factors involved. Increased availability, indecisiveness, responsibility.

1. Increased availability. When we started out we only had a few choices. All of our friends had a few choices. Now we have a metric crap ton of choices, as do all our friends. Lets picture this in terms of landmass and population.

In the beginning there were 100 of us strolling around in something the size of Germany. It was no problem bumping into one another and doing things together. Now, those 100 of us are scattered across something the size of the Americas, Australia, and Asia combined. We're spread thin.

2. Indecisiveness. With the greater availability of games comes indecisiveness. When we had 3 options it was easy to decide on which one to play. We didn't have much choice. Either we liked one of the three or we didn't. Now we have hundreds of MMOs to choose from. "Well, I like this part, but not that part. And in this game I like that part, but not this part. And in this game..."

We have so many choices, none of which are perfect, but we know that we don't have to settle for something imperfect because we have so many choices. So we wander around dipping our toes here and there but just not finding what we want. With only 3 choices you can only dip your toes so much before you decide to stick with one of the imperfect ones. With hundreds of choices you can just keep dipping your toes and you'll never be satisfied.

3. Responsibility. We're not 18 anymore with our biggest responsibility being putting down the toilet seat after we pee or getting in trouble with our boss at the nearest hamburger flipping joint because we're 10 minutes late. We no longer have 5 to 10 hours a day to veg at the computer playing with our buddies.

We have important careers. We have husbands and wives that require time. We have children that require time. We have home maintenance, doctors visits, grocery shopping, car repair, and working overtime. We just can't invest as much time into our hobby as we once could.

Now mix all that together.

Before, we had 99 friends with lots of time on their hands all deciding to play one of three games.

Now, we have 99 friends with very little time on our hands all trying to decide which of the hundreds of games we want to play. And each of those 99 friends finds something they like and dislike about each of those hundreds of games, something different than their other 99 friends.

The math just doesn't add up and makes it so hard to really connect for long in any one game.

Now that's just what I see, and I'm sure there are plenty of others out there with less of an ADD problem than myself. But I bet many of us here in these forums can relate.

[hipcheck]

well, that's a bit what I said... the thing is: this is TOG! not like I'm a central member or known by many here, but I think if someone wants to really get into a game, it's not that hard to organize some people around it. when I played MxO (not with TOG, unforch), I was taking a medical leave and had lots of time, so I did a lot of organizing, and there was a lot of traction and momentum. since then, with more subdued efforts in games, I find there's less excitement and staying power.

so perhaps instead of playing a bit of everything, it might be worth really organizing around one of the upcoming releases, and a lot will fall into place. this is the place to do it! I'm hoping that when SWTOR comes around, I'll either be enjoying work too much to notice, or else I'll be here helping rally the troops! it is, after all, MMO, not just MO