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Old 15th November 2012, 08:27 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Pathfinder is a long way out still... but Neverwinter is closer. This is going to have mmo elements, and user generate content. So technically, anyone can be a DM and create an adventure.

http://www.playneverwinter.com/
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Old 15th November 2012, 08:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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The Elder Scrolls Online is slated for next year as well, which may end up being a nice sandbox hybrid from all I've seen so far.
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Old 15th November 2012, 09:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm looking forward to The Repopulation, primarily because I was such a huge fan of pre-ruination SWG.
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Old 15th November 2012, 10:38 AM   #14 (permalink)
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There are a few interesting MMO's under development right now, and most of the innovation is coming from indies...

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Old 15th November 2012, 10:42 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I have a couple of hypothesis that I'm winding in to a theory which I'm pretty confident will bear out for many players.

1. Spoiled for choice: We have literally more games than a person with unlimited funds and free time can play. My Steam catalogue (never mind other games on top of that) has ~40% of the games I've never literally run. Either games in a package deal that didn't really interest me or games that were uber cheap (DAMN YOU SUMMER SALE!) that I picked up at the time thinking I'll play later. These include Saints Row 3, Batman Arkham City and LA Noire. Being spoiled for choice makes us more discerning and less willing to accept pedestrian products that we previously would have played to death when there were far less options. And my steam account at 330 odd games is relatively small compared to some.

2. F2P takes away the need to justify paying a monthly sub by playing. I know that there were times in WoW I was only hanging around for the community, but since I was paying 15 bucks a month I should really be getting my monies worth... So I would invent my own fun like solo'ing as much as possible as a 60 druid back in vanilla, for example, rather than just letting the account lapse. Currently, with no sub, I have characters/accounts in EQII, LOTRO, DDO, Firefall, Dragon's Nest, Planetside 2, MWO, WoT, GW2, TSW (lifetime), most of which I'm not playing currently (PS2, MWO and some Firefall are about it). And EQII and LOTRO have had recent entire expansions released...

3. Very little is actually new anymore. Even GW2 with it's refinements isn't a new take on the genre, it's entire questing system is based on Warhammer Online. You remember first logging in to EQ or SWG back in the day, you had a game that was magnitudes larger than anything else you had ever played in most cases. I spent my first hour in WoW wandering around the Teldrassil noob area amazed at just how amazing the graphics were... ; ) Nowdays, I log in, hit the ground running, pick up as many quests as possible and start slaughtering. I have streamlined my "new mmo" experience to maximise time and minimise downtime even though I don't think of myself as a hardcore min/maxer.

4. Most MMO content is repetition/grinding. They can try and dress it up as much as possible but the end result is that you spend a disproportionate amount of time chasing gear or faction points etc rather than actually adventuring. DDO is one of the few games where this isn't so bad (there are a huge number of available adventures when you're leveling and you don't typically need to grind unless you're going for achievements) and even that get's repetitive.

Combine repetitive retread games with no sub (no impetus to play to get value) and a plethora of other choices, it becomes incredibly easy to become disenfranchised/burnout with a title much sooner than we used to, or to jump between games rather than dedicate time to one. At least, this is my experience.

Against this is the community effect of MP games where the enjoyment is derived from the social interaction in game rather than the game itself, ie. teamspeak banter or taking on harder challenges in a group of friends which can cause a game to hold your interest for longer than it really should purely because of the people you are playing with.

It took me a long time to come to this realisation and when I did, I started to stop playing games when I got bored with them rather than enduring something I wasn't enjoying. Probably one of the reasons that despite getting a lvl 90 something hardcore paladin in Diablo II, I couldn't even force myself past lvl 10 of the demo of Diablo III...
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Old 15th November 2012, 04:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'll look into pathfinder, yeah I've been following neverwinter, I don't have high hopes for that one as it seems like it'll be a hub game kind of like how GW1 was, repopulation I've read some on that one and agree shows promise, embers of caerus haven't heard of that one yet will have to see what info I can dig up on that one. Elderscrolls, if they can keep the vast explorable world on that while keeping the feel of the game I could spend years on that alone, but we'll have to see. I'm trying to not get to excited about these games anymore as they always seem to be a let down.

But yeah I see your point Asmodai i've thought about that as well, but frankly I'm such a cheap bastard if I pay for something I'm damn well gonna play it, lol one of my many shortcomings, and I've seem to have endured a lot of pain lately with some of these games. You where not wrong on D3 either, I played to hardcore but not sure why, the game was horrible compared to D1/D2.

I really would love it if nevewinter nights turned out to be an epic game, but after DDO I'm not getting to excited, being a life long PnP DnD guy I love that shit, but DDO I felt confined, to me what DnD was all about is adventure and exploration, I felt trapped in that little port with no where to roam and spread my legs.

All really great ideas and thoughts I appreciate the feedback, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who sees how things are going and I'm a lonely gaming geek.

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Old 15th November 2012, 05:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Asmodai, I think you're missing one point.

We are seasoned MMO players, to the point that MMO makers struggle to keep us entertained. We all know the formulas, and easily adapt them to each new game. It is to the point where developers are constantly bordering on excessively elitist difficulty to appeasing the casuals.
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Old 15th November 2012, 08:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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For Embers of Caerus, there is lots of information on the official site here: Embers of Caerus - News including a bunch of videos in the media section (read the vision post too!).

Twonk Hammer have also just finished a series of feature articles on EoC which covers most of the released features pretty well. The final summary article with links to the rest can be found here: Introducing Embers of Caerus - Part 7 [Final] - Twonk HammerTwonk Hammer

Or, you could just ask me, being a dev and all

Edit: I also support and agree with the general concensus in this thread about the current state of MMO's. This is, after all, the reason we started work on EoC
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Old 16th November 2012, 05:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Excellent flintwick, I'll check that stuff out today sometime.

I agree with Thymos on this one, I can handle a themepark a lot better if they made it challenging, but frankly fishing for skill up is f--king boring. I hate fishing in real life and I sure as hell don't want to do it in a game because I need food to eat.

Also I know Diablo has done this since D1, has it never occured to any of the game developers to make random dungeon generators on some of these themeparks, If DDO had this I'd play it on a daily basis, and even (choke) WoW, but having the same monster in the same spot, the same trap, the same chest, I know this would be difficult in a larger scale MMO like WoW or DDO, but I think it would more than make up for in profits, the generated dungeons for Diablo are much simplier and not as elaborate as some of these other places, but I think it would be well worth it, could you imagine running into different creatures and traps everytime, it would be exciting to not, know what excate pull you are gonna do, stun this guy, kill this guy, then this guy and you win, F--KING BORING.
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Old 16th November 2012, 05:15 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thymos View Post
We are seasoned MMO players, to the point that MMO makers struggle to keep us entertained. We all know the formulas, and easily adapt them to each new game. It is to the point where developers are constantly bordering on excessively elitist difficulty to appeasing the casuals.
Very true! Also, what is 'the same old' to us can be new to others. My kids and their friends are loving some of the new releases, even if they are a bit too much of the same for me to play all that long.

We grew up in a unique era where gaming was new and changing at a rapid pace. Now it's mainstream. Much like television, their are hundreds of shows out there and you have to do some work to find the gems among them.
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