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-   -   How i would build an outfit setup (http://www.theoldergamers.com/forum/planetside-2-public/443779-how-i-would-build-outfit-setup.html)

Duckforceone 14th July 2012 11:09 AM

How i would build an outfit setup
 
How i would like to organize a full unit

So we have heard that a squad is 30 people

29 people + 1 leader

but that's a full squad. We can easily have smaller squads for special purposes

Main Squad = main infantry force. Run in, die and capture the point

Recon Squad = a tiny squad, ranging in size depending on how many we are in total and what our objectives are. Scouting out new targets, locating enemy movements.

Transport Squad = a squad that specializes in transporting and supporting. I can see them flying a galaxy and staying near it to keep the spawn point up. Perhaps even include some anti aa and anti vehicle support from long range.

Sniper Squad = Deploys around a target area, and takes out targets, and spots targets during an assault.

Airforce Squad = Supports the main squad with air cover

Armored Squad = Supports the main squad with heavy armor and assault vehicles.


War Leaders : A few appointed by the outfit to assume the full war picture and leadership
Squad Leaders : Anyone appointed by the outfit to fulfill the leadership role
Unofficial leaders : in case we don't have any leaders online, anyone willing to step up
Soldiers : Anyone else

A war leader, is the one currently directing all the squads online. If a warleader comes online, and is alone, he assumes full leadership of warfare, until releasing it or going offline. Another war leader can ask for war leader time, to earn experience in the roles, in case another already has full leadership. But it is always up to the active war leader.

I can see a war leader typically being either in the main squad if we are low on soldiers, or being in the transport squad, or sniper squad for better overview.

A Squad Leader, is one assuming full control of a squad, directing them in their task, reporting back to the war leader, and taking orders. If no war leader is online, any squad leader can step up and assume the role as temporary war leader. When a war leader comes online, he should identify himself to the squad leader, and either ask for taking over, or ask if he wants to get more experience in the war leader role.

An unofficial leader, is basically anyone willing to step up into the squad leader shoes, should they be absent or not enough online.


As to which squads people should be in, would be fluid.

The war leader should look at the amount of people available, then contact the squad leaders as to which squads he want up and running. These squad leaders usually know which people are perfect for their squads, but should also be willing to test out new people as well.

Say we have 100 people online. The war leader wants 2 main squads with 30 people each, and those 2 leaders start inviting people.
He then wants a 5 man recon squad, and that leader starts looking for 4 more for his squad. If he normaly works with up to 10 people, he has to look at what is online, and if people have contacted him about trying out for the role.

So far he has allocated 65 people out of 100.

He might then want a 10 man airforce, a 10 man armored, 5 man sniper and a 5 man transport.

This has allocated all 100... if more comes online, they contact the war leader who knows which squads needs reinforcing. He can also create more squads should it be needed. Let's say he wants to have a seperate assault at 2 places, and want's to split up the airforce squad into 2, so they can support their own main squad.

If VOIP ingame has a squadwide channel, we only need other things such as teamspeak to have intel channels where all the squad leaders can talk without bothering everyone else.


The reason behind this fluid setup is, that we are not elite small squads that have the same rolls at all times. Also this setup, allows more people to have fun, and try out new things. Even leaders have the chance to relax and take on normal roles, and let others try out their skills.

anyways, this was just the basic idea on how i would love to build a setup such as hours. And of course it can be defined alot more. More squads and the likes.

And also as we talked in another post, make youtube videos on squad tactics so members have an easy way to understand what's going on and what to do without needing to practice all the time as elite squads would do.

Input?

And how would you do it? :D

Shrubbo 14th July 2012 01:06 PM

I don't know how I would do it tho I would suspect it would be similar. It's all speculation for me at the moment and until we are well into the beta where things are getting sorted out I find it difficult to plan things like this. I do enjoy reading stuff like this and taking notes tho, it's all part of the fun :)

Terraphon 14th July 2012 01:07 PM

Duck:

You're functionally correct here but there's some stuff that should be clarified as to avoid any confusion.

I'll break it down for you, below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckforceone (Post 3586743)
How i would like to organize a full unit

So we have heard that a squad is 30 people

29 people + 1 leader

This is functionally correct, but with some nitpicky terminology corrections.

A squad can be up to 10 players. Up to 3 squads can form a platoon, for a total of 30 players per platoon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckforceone (Post 3586743)
but that's a full squad. We can easily have smaller squads for special purposes

Absolutely!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckforceone (Post 3586743)
Main Squad = main infantry force. Run in, die and capture the point

Recon Squad = a tiny squad, ranging in size depending on how many we are in total and what our objectives are. Scouting out new targets, locating enemy movements.

Transport Squad = a squad that specializes in transporting and supporting. I can see them flying a galaxy and staying near it to keep the spawn point up. Perhaps even include some anti aa and anti vehicle support from long range.

Sniper Squad = Deploys around a target area, and takes out targets, and spots targets during an assault.

Airforce Squad = Supports the main squad with air cover

Armored Squad = Supports the main squad with heavy armor and assault vehicles.

This is similar in concept to the idea I posted in the other thread...multiple groups doing specific things and making sure their role is played out.

In Planetside 2, generally your snipers will also be your recon / spotters since the infiltrator class uses stealth and also encompasses sniping, unlike in PS1 where infiltrators didn't have enough slots to carry a bolt rifle.

Overall, your concept looks like a good one though, of course, a plan is always a great one until the metal starts meeting the meat, then things go to hell in a handbasket :p


Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckforceone (Post 3586743)
War Leaders : A few appointed by the outfit to assume the full war picture and leadership
Squad Leaders : Anyone appointed by the outfit to fulfill the leadership role
Unofficial leaders : in case we don't have any leaders online, anyone willing to step up
Soldiers : Anyone else

A war leader, is the one currently directing all the squads online. If a warleader comes online, and is alone, he assumes full leadership of warfare, until releasing it or going offline. Another war leader can ask for war leader time, to earn experience in the roles, in case another already has full leadership. But it is always up to the active war leader.

I can see a war leader typically being either in the main squad if we are low on soldiers, or being in the transport squad, or sniper squad for better overview.

A Squad Leader, is one assuming full control of a squad, directing them in their task, reporting back to the war leader, and taking orders. If no war leader is online, any squad leader can step up and assume the role as temporary war leader. When a war leader comes online, he should identify himself to the squad leader, and either ask for taking over, or ask if he wants to get more experience in the war leader role.

An unofficial leader, is basically anyone willing to step up into the squad leader shoes, should they be absent or not enough online.

This all sounds great...delegation of authority and leadership. Good stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckforceone (Post 3586743)
As to which squads people should be in, would be fluid.

The war leader should look at the amount of people available, then contact the squad leaders as to which squads he want up and running. These squad leaders usually know which people are perfect for their squads, but should also be willing to test out new people as well.

Say we have 100 people online. The war leader wants 2 main squads with 30 people each, and those 2 leaders start inviting people.
He then wants a 5 man recon squad, and that leader starts looking for 4 more for his squad. If he normaly works with up to 10 people, he has to look at what is online, and if people have contacted him about trying out for the role.

So far he has allocated 65 people out of 100.

He might then want a 10 man airforce, a 10 man armored, 5 man sniper and a 5 man transport.

This has allocated all 100... if more comes online, they contact the war leader who knows which squads needs reinforcing. He can also create more squads should it be needed. Let's say he wants to have a seperate assault at 2 places, and want's to split up the airforce squad into 2, so they can support their own main squad.

If VOIP ingame has a squadwide channel, we only need other things such as teamspeak to have intel channels where all the squad leaders can talk without bothering everyone else.

The reason behind this fluid setup is, that we are not elite small squads that have the same rolls at all times. Also this setup, allows more people to have fun, and try out new things. Even leaders have the chance to relax and take on normal roles, and let others try out their skills.

I like the idea here again but the concept is fundamentally flawed. This could work eventually but in the beginning most players will be specializing because of the lack of certification points...for example, right out of the gate I will be putting all of my cert points toward sniping and air combat...I'll do nobody any good with heavy armor or MAX suits.

There's also the issue that, unlike PS1, PS2 uses a resource system to enable the spawning of vehicles and the like. If the faction doesn't have any resources available at a particular location, the classes will be fairly limited so this will seriously limit the flexibility

Also, yes the game does feature squad-wide VoIP at this time. That MAY change before release but I know it is something they really want so unless they're having massive problems with it, it will be there at launch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckforceone (Post 3586743)
anyways, this was just the basic idea on how i would love to build a setup such as hours. And of course it can be defined alot more. More squads and the likes.

And also as we talked in another post, make youtube videos on squad tactics so members have an easy way to understand what's going on and what to do without needing to practice all the time as elite squads would do.

Input?

And how would you do it? :D

Yeah...youtube videos of squad tactics would be awesome for new players and members.

oldskool 14th July 2012 01:10 PM

Yup Terraphon couldn't have said it better myself!

Flintwick 14th July 2012 09:30 PM

A good commander learns how to make strategic decisions with whatever they have to hand, and still be able to gain tactical advantage. This is in no small part due to the fact on the battlefield, people die, and you can't always have your perfect batallion and support makeup.

With that in mind, its still worth deciding an overall role for the outfit, even if that role evolves over time based on manpower and specialists. This will be decided once we have some capability (e.g. are we armoured, ground mobile, air mobile, skirmish, assault... etc). The key hope though is that we do have certain roles fulfilled, much like a few have outlined.

For example, in 2Para we had the following:
Infantry Companies - General soldiers.
Pathfinder Company - advanced scouts, snipers
Special Weapons Company - Mortars/anti tank weapons etc
MT (Motor Transport) Platoon - Vehicle drivers
REME LAD (engineers)
Medics

So, in the context of PS, that would mean General Soldiers, drivers (or pilots), specialists (medics/engineers/hackers), a recon/sniper squad, and a few heavy weapon specialists (max or anti-vehicle/air weapon specialists). That is what I see as the minimum. Also, squads should be balanced where possible, and all infantry should pick up basics like basic field first aid etc.

As we grow, and people spec more certs, we will have much more flexibility. Also, we will move from infantry batallion size, up to battlegroup size. This means we will include an armoured division, air support, artillery support, logistics support etc. These could be contained and managed individually, and while as people get free points and can cert up to join any of those units, there is a lot to be said about having people with a priority focus, and being able to train alongside familiar faces, and develop advanced tactics.

For example, all pilots should endeavour to fly with a wingman. All armoured divisions should move in force and focus fire on targets. Battlefield tactics should be devised and trained, to allow us to out-think and out-manouver the enemy. Scouts and Recons should be aware of their roles, and be able to communicate threats. But most importantly, on any given operation, the chain of command should be well understood, and followed without question.

Anyway, just my thoughts :) As ex-military, and a student of historical strategies and battlefield tactics, I can get quite carried away on this topic :P

Bayland 15th July 2012 05:27 AM

In PS1 the groups tended to breakdown between fast movers and slow movers.

Fast Movers:
Rapid response, special ops, re-secure, and behind the line demolition

Slow Movers:
Armor, Indoor Infantry, Suppression Fire

Atrayo 17th July 2012 07:54 AM

Hi Guys,

Perhaps create some Fixed Squad Rosters sorta like we do in our past / present Battlefield Divisions. Although in TOG we're not so regimental by being more accommodating to differing play styles and time commitments to this hobby / past time. We can set-up squads or mini-squads of TOGers according to timezone or regional real world locations. Since in most cases they'll form a tighter knit group in achieving hopefully success in game play. (if not create a jovial atmosphere)

In another community of gamers which I belonged to that is now mostly defunct (ie TGW) they ran multiple campaigns of BF 2142. (we had numerous custom maps) We had a hierarchy from the general down to the squad leader and the alternate assisting squad leader. Within each squad numbering anywhere from 6 members up 15. We each ran practice strategy sessions together each according to our preferred game play style. So as to be prepared on the campaign day, which included voice comm protocols.

TOG, may not be so rigid in game play character however a similar sort of structure will surely prove useful to us in PS2.

Flintwick 17th July 2012 06:31 PM

The benefit of fixed squad rosters in those games is because matches are quite small. With the size and scale of PS, it actually pays to be experienced with all the different people in the outfit, and be more adaptable. Its not like you can play throwaway matches between the scheduled fixed squad matches, every fight you take part in is a live fight, contributing to the same war.

I say steer clear of fixed squad rosters, as it creates and reinforces cliques and elitism.

MMOGAddict 17th July 2012 11:49 PM

I've found the following simple system for running in game:

Definitions:
* Squad - a group of up to 10 players
* Platoon - a group of up to 30 players
* Squad Leader - the person CURRENTLY in charge of a squad (this person can be of any rank within the organisation if ranks are used at all)
* Platoon Leader - the same as a squad leader but in charge of the platoon at the present time.
* Elmos - Red Target
* Barnies - Purple Targets

Step 1: Log into TS
Step 2: Log into Planetside
Step 3: Ask in Outfit chat for a Platoon invite
Step 4A: Accept Platoon invite, join right channel in TS do what you're told
Step 4B: If no platoon invite, then either start one up or go indie for awhile.

TS should be setup ideally like this:

Outfit
-Platoon 1
--Squad 1
--Squad 2
--Squad 3
-Platoon 2
--Squad 1
--Squad 2
--Squad 3
etc

TS needs to be setup so that all members can set their channel commander lights/flags to on.

All members need to setup at least 2 push to talk buttons and 1 button to toggle channel commander on/off. The first PTT button is talk to channel. The second PTT button is talk to all channel commanders.

Anyone leading a squad or platoon (Anyone can be a squad leader and everybody needs to be encouraged to give leading a squad or platoon a go) should have their channel commander toggles on (other members of the squad DO NOT need their channel commander on - but we're not stopping you either.)

When the Platoon Leader needs to issue orders (or Overall command when running more than 1 Platoon) they uses their 2nd PTT button which will allow them to speak to anyone else with a channel commander toggle on. Those without their channel commander lights on don't hear anything. Once the leader of the squad has their targets they can rely this information to the rest of the squad through their 1st PTT button.

What the above allows is the following:

1. ANYONE can lead a squad, a platoon or even the entire outfit at any point in time with a minimum of fuss.

2. Operations just like the war itself NEVER STOPS unless only a handful of people are online.

3. If somebody needs to AFK, gets a honey do or whatever they can easily ask somebody else to take over, it's only a matter of hitting your command toggle.

4. Communications within a squad can occur without the channel descending into anarchy. This isn't Battlefield you are going to have a lot more people spread out over a lot more territory. Communications are key, you need to be able to say stuff like, Max on the top floor or incoming Elmos without 30+ other people who are in their own battle on a different floor, in the courtyard or attacking a nearby point getting confused. you aren't goign to have anymore than 10 people talking over each other.

5. It allows for a chain of command to be easily established. Platoon Leader can assign each squad to a different target and then leave it up to the Squad Leaders to achieve their targets. Meanwhile the troops go about smearing Elmo and Barnies all over the place.

6. People are free to come and go as their please, while in the Platoon you do as asked but while not in a platoon you are free to do whatever you like.

The above allows you to easily organize a large force. I've lead forces of 60+ players this way in Planetside before. You can even switch people between squads if they want particular roles in a certain squad. for example you want to hit the Muloc base, you stick your air support focused players into Squad 3 and leave them to handle air superiority over the target and to provide a Galaxy dropship. You load up squad 1 of your infantry types into the galaxy and get your Armour guys in squad 2 to go pull out the Vannies. you tell Squad 1 you want them to drop on the northside and press in toward the control node, you task squad 2 to bypass the base and intercept any reinforments coming up from the other side and you tell Squad 3 to provide 2 escorts for the Galaxy and have the rest cover the base before moving to support the armour once the infantry has inserted.

Inside each squad you can have all the combat chatter you need. Squad 1's leader is getting his guys to move up with people calling out targets, relaying information back to each other and otherwise engaged with wiping Elmo and Barnies ass around the base. Squad 2 is doing something similar in the rolling hills and along the road outside the base and Squad 3 is calling air targets and requesting backup or help from each other as they dogfight in the air above. And all this occurs without steppign on each other and while still allowing things like say if Squad 2 is being hit hard and needs to pull back for the squad leader of squad 2 to inform the platoon leader via their PTT command button whats going on so that the Platoon leader can either alter the orders or tell another squad to go help them out. This also works across multiple Platoons.

To further aid in communication, and assuming that the same system from Planetside is in Planetside 2 you should see your platoon as colours and numbers on the map. Each squad is a different colour. This allows you to identify each other easily and quickly spot each other on the mini-map and continent map by using your number and colour. "Red 5 need backup there are 4 reavers on me" quickly allows everyone in the squad to look at the minimap, see a Red 5 flashing to their NW and head off to bring some pain to the enemy.

MMOGAddict 17th July 2012 11:54 PM

Planetside is a fluid game, as far as 'ranks' go I would allow any TOG officers of the division the ability to politely assume command if they so wish (be it of a squad, platoon or otherwise) but at the same time allow the possibility of ANY togger to do what is in my previous post if an officer is either not around or doesn't want to lead at a particular point in time or we don't have enough officers around.

This allows operations 24/7 if we have enough people online.


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