Borderlands (and the DLCs) - looking for feedback..

[Ned]

I own Borderlands and am yet to play it. (It's one of many on my to-play list.) I have some questions that other prospective players may also be interested in. All comment about this game welcome, good and bad!


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From this thread I became curious about Borderlands' Downloadable Content packs (DLCs)...


• The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned

The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned is the first Add-On for Borderlands with new enemy types, new missions, and new ... surprises.

The Jakobs Corporation would like to invite you to experience the splendor of a corporate owned small town known as Jakobs Cove. Any rumors you may have heard about the "undead" walking our streets are completely preposterous and we officially deny them all. If those rumors turn out to be true simply purchase a firearm from the conveniently located Jakobs Brand Vending Machines and aim for the head. Also, would you mind saving our employees? (Non-union only please)

5 New Areas to Explore
Dozens of New Missions
New Enemies to Eviscerate


• Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot

Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot is an addon pack for Borderlands that includes a new cooperative arena game mode and a stash to store your gear.

Are you god's gift to gun fights? Think you're the best? Wanna prove it? Then help us celebrate the grand opening of Marcus Bank (a subsidiary of Marcus Corp) by killing hundreds and hundreds of people in Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot, the only competitive arena around where your next of kin can be assured that you're coming back famous . . . or not at all. (All proceeds are kept by us)


• The Secret Armory of General Knoxx

Borderlands goes to ELEVEN! You may have seen some games raise their level cap by 5, or maybe even 10, but with The Crimson Lance Assassination Squads wreaking havoc and Crawmerax the Invincible being all invulnerable and stuff we knew you'd need more than just 10. And that's why Borderlands goes to ELEVEN! The Secret Armory of General Knoxx adds new guns, new Class Mods, new vehicles, new missions, and increases the level cap by ELEVEN. Once you factor in all the new enemy types that need killing you're going to need eleven just to keep up. The Secret Armory of General Knoxx is an add-on pack for Borderlands that raises the level cap to 61, adds new guns, vehicles, Class Mods, shields, enemy types, and missions. In other words...best add-on ever. Of all time. Forever. The End.


(Info from Steam Borderlands DLC descriptions.)



So..

-are the DLCs worth getting even if you end up just a casual player?
-do you think they're worth the money - casual player and/or hardcore fan??
-are they worthy of the default Borderlands, not as good, or even better???

-If it's possible to do so what FPS/RPG ratio would you give this game?
I've heard this being call a RPS ie. a Role Playing Shooter.

-As far as co-op games go, is there much of a learning-curve and what's the "FUN FACTOR" like?
-Are you able to jump into a game for 30-60 minutes and be satisfied or is there a strong and maybe even essential grinding element involved?



cheers
nedd

[Unknown]

Dot-point answers:

• if you like the main game, you're likely to enjoy and find something useful in the DLCs - if you don't enjoy the main game, then obviously steer clear of the DLCs;
• you can play the game on your own, or co-op - it's drop-in/drop-out, all the same story, there's no separate co-op missions (and there's no AI to take the place of human players - instead the enemies dynamically scale to the number of human players in the game as they join or disconnect);
• DLC1 (Zombie Island) is a Halloween-themed romp that introduces a little more humour and provides the opportunity to gain two more backpack SDUs (allowing you to carry more gear with you in your inventory);
• DLC2 (Mad Moxxi) is far less quest-oriented and more grinding-oriented (and hence cops most of the negativity) as it's meant to be a challenge for players who think that Borderlands is too easy - if you complete the short tournament you gain two additional skill points to use with your character and of course there's always the bank/stash (to supplement your backpack inventory);
• DLC3 (General Knoxx) picked up on the humour from DLC1 and ran with it, extending the story from the end of the main game but also introduced new class mods, shields, weapons, increased the level cap (along with additional skill points) for your character and provided a "farming boss" which is always a few levels higher than you, in order to provide some challenge for high-end characters.

It's definitely more FPS than RPG. There's a "follow-the-bouncing-ball" approach to the early quests to get you up to speed on the more important RPG elements and for a tutorial, it's surprisingly unobtrusive and gets you going through the game quite quickly.

[Thermal Ions]

Originally Posted by Ned

I own Borderlands and am yet to play it. (It's one of many on my to-play list.) I have some questions that other prospective players may also be interested in. All comment about this game welcome, good and bad!

Fun game which does a very god job of balancing the RPG questing / loot hoarding against casual FPS.

Originally Posted by Ned

• The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned

Extends the game with new areas, quests and enemies. The zombies do change the game somewhat, rather than being for example just a re-skin. They'll vomit on you obscuring your vision, suicide on you, crawl along the ground after you.

Originally Posted by Ned

• Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot

For my money the best part of this DLC is getting access to the bank storage. Doesn't contain much storyline or real quests on the same level as the rest of the game, rather provides arenas to take on waves of zombies. Bosses from the original game reappear at the end of every 5 waves. There's 3 short arena's (5 rounds of 5 waves) and 3 long arena's (20 rounds of 5 waves - I believe). I've only done the short ones so far. Really needs to be played in co-op, solo sucks.

Originally Posted by Ned

• The Secret Armory of General Knoxx

Goes back to adding significant new areas, quests, enemies and vehicles. Making "Armory runs" can get rather addictive if you use the glitch to be able to go in as many times as you like (normally you're limited to 3 time limited run per play through). Can get some nice gear from here.

Originally Posted by Ned

-are the DLCs worth getting even if you end up just a casual player?
-do you think they're worth the money - casual player and/or hardcore fan??
-are they worthy of the default Borderlands, not as good, or even better???

(A) #1 - Yes, #2 - Yes, if like most you find yourself collecting different weapons you'll need the storage space, #3 - Yes.
(B) Casual player - see (A), Hardcore - definitely
(C) #1 and #3 continue on the similar vein and even turn up the humour in places. #2 is different being arena based and in my mind not as good (you wouldn't repeat it anywhere near as much as the original game or DLC1/3).

Note: Unless it's been fixed in latest patch (which I've not heard), you will be unable to join a game being hosted by someone who's character has visited any of the DLC's that you don't have. For example if I have a character I've taken to the bank in DLC#2 at any time and then I host a game for you to join and you don't own DLC#2 you won't be able to join. This in itself makes it worth the cost of getting all 3 DLC if you intend to get any, just to save the hassle.

Originally Posted by Ned

-If it's possible to do so what FPS/RPG ratio would you give this game?
I've heard this being call a RPS ie. a Role Playing Shooter.

The FPS aspect is extremely accessible to someone who may not have played an FPS before. For an FPS veteran like yourself, don't expect anything approaching hardcore. I found the RPG aspect very natural but then I've played RPG's before. I've seen some who've never played an RPG initally struggle to get the hang of the questing / comparing loot / spending points on skills, but eventually settle into it. The poorly implemented consolified menu's don't help this, but you learn to work with them - they're not deal breakers.
They've integrated the two aspects well, and I don't know that I could assign a meaningful ratio.

Originally Posted by Ned

-As far as co-op games go, is there much of a learning-curve and what's the "FUN FACTOR" like?
-Are you able to jump into a game for 30-60 minutes and be satisfied or is there a strong and maybe even essential grinding element involved?

Pretty easy learning curve. Definitely FUN with friends (much better than playing solo). You use the same character in co-op and solo, with seamless levelling regardless of which mode you're playing. As there's no loot distribution system (apart from cash) pub games can be very hit and miss as some people will grab everything good that drops rather than sharing them around.
Note that the host of a co-op game is the one who's quest progression dictates what one's are available. Networking issues are mostly resolved so it's easy now for anyone to host (no more port forwarding) so you quickly adapt to this by getting the least progressed person to host many times.
No essential grinding, you level and get money quite well just following the quests with only the odd few of them being grinding missions.
You can pick up and play it for 30 mins or hours at a time.

[Ned]

wow awesome feedback guys!
I'm convinced.. downloading all three DLCs as I type..

Let me have a run-around and find the character I like initially like the most and I'll see you guys in-game

[Ned]

Thanks to Unknown, Thermal Ions and his son Optica for showing me the basics OF THIS AMAZING GAME/WORLD. A very impressive game, your feedback was perfect.

Originally Posted by Thermal Ions

Fun game which does a very god job of balancing the RPG questing / loot hoarding against casual FPS.

Definitely!



A question regarding the DLCs, can you play them only when you've completed the full initial game? I don't have any separate links to start them up..

[Unknown]

Originally Posted by Ned

A question regarding the DLCs, can you play them only when you've completed the full initial game? I don't have any separate links to start them up..

TL;DR version:

No, you don't have to complete the main game before visiting the DLCs but it helps (with the exception of the bank in DLC2). To access the DLCs, use the Fast Travel Network.

Longer version:

Fast Travel and Accessing DLCs

Remember the New-U Station where you can change your clothes colours, character name and purchase a skill respec? Look to the top-right of that window and you'll see two icons, a little identity card and a rabbit - the identity card refers to the aforementioned New-U Station functions whereas the rabbit accesses the Fast Travel Network (teleporter).

Originally you couldn't use the Fast Travel Network until it was unlocked with the appropriate quest in the Dahl Headlands, but with the addition of the DLCs you can teleport to those locations even before the rest of the Fast Travel Network has been unlocked:

• DLC1: The Zombie Island of Dr Ned - Jakob's Cove
• DLC2: Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot - The Underdome
• DLC3: The Secret Armory of General Knoxx - T-Bone Junction
• DLC4: Claptrap's New Robot Revolution - Tartarus Station
  

Once you have unlocked the Fast Travel Network, you will be able to move around Pandora much more quickly with one notable exception - alas, there is no fast travel within the areas provided by a DLC, only to/from the initial location of the DLC (listed above); this also means game saves within a DLC always place you at the starting location of the DLC (eg., if playing DLC3 you'll always start at T-Bone Junction, even if you saved your game whilst at the Deep Fathoms). It's a minor annoyance and in reality is usually quickly overcome (especially in co-op games).

This contrasts with the original game where you can travel between areas (eg., New Haven and the Trash Coast) or even different points within the same area (eg., Fyrestone and Titan's End, both within the Arid Badlands).

Playing DLCs

Technically you don't have to wait to complete the original game before checking out the DLCs, but note that some areas are scaled to assume you've reached a certain level - for example, you can travel to T-Bone Junction and have a quick look around, but beware that any enemies you encounter are likely to be level 35-ish or higher (assuming playthrough 1).

The "safest" place to check out first is Moxxi's Underdome (DLC2) because you can access the bank storage without any fear of encountering enemies. For all three DLCs, you can travel to the first location, pick up the first quest then look in your quest log to see the recommended level before deciding whether to proceed, or return to the main game to level up further.

I should probably explain playthroughs and level scaling at this point...

Playthroughs and Level Scaling

The game is designed around two "playthroughs" - that is, start getting off the bus at the beginning of a playthrough and complete the last main story quest (regardless whether you have completed all the optional side quests) at the end of a playthrough.

When the game was released, playthrough 1 started with your character at level 1 and playthrough 2 was scaled to assume your character was starting at around level 35. Once you complete playthrough 1, you can commence playthrough 2 (it'll prompt you when you try to load up a character) or you can keep going back to playthrough 1 if you wish (eg., to finish side quests or whatever). You start playthrough 2 with all the same money, weapons, skills, etc. you had when you finished playthrough 1.

Once you complete playthrough 2, you are in what the community calls "playthrough 2.5" (it still involves loading your character as though it was playthrough 2) - you don't have any more main story quests to do but you can still travel around killing things, finding new/better loot, completing side quests you didn't finish earlier, etc.

The DLCs have been released afterwards and also support the notion of taking your character through in playthrough 1 or 2 and thus have been scaled accordingly; why would you want to do playthrough 1 if your character is already way too high/powerful? Simple - each DLC provides a benefit that is available on each playthrough so running through the DLCs multiple times means you can maximise your character.

There are exceptions to this "scaling assumptions based on playthrough" though, such as Crawmerax at the end of DLC3 always being level 64 and the enemies in Moxxi's arenas always scaling to match the host character, regardless of playthrough; even more changes are likely to appear with the release of the upcoming 1.41 "re-scaling patch".

Order of Play

There is no perfect order in which to play the main game and DLCs across the two playthroughs - my first/main character completed PT1 then PT2 as each was released (first the main game, then DLC1, then DLC2, then DLC 3 and finally DLC4), whereas the three characters I'm currently taking through the game are doing PT1 of everything (main game plus 4 DLCs) followed by PT2 of everything.

I know it's a lot to read (I blame work - I'm in the middle of writing a few detailed reports so I was on a roll), but I'm certain these are issues/questions you'll encounter at some point so I figured I might as well anticipate and answer them in advance.

[Ned]

Thanks again! I'll probably complete the original game (or at least most of it) before heading into the DLCs.