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Old 29th October 2012, 01:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Other thread in RPG Strat, Sim forum with link to advanced combat tute.

chivalry medieval warfare
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Nice... now to quit work and play games all day again
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Old 29th October 2012, 08:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Okay you guys have conviced me... bought it and just played the training and a quick MP... looks good!
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Old 31st October 2012, 09:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Nobody is playing War of the Roses?

I own chivalry as well but just cannot bring myself to like it.
Used to play RO2 a lot but now WOTR is my primary frustration taker and maker.

In Chivalry;
(i) To slash left you first have to slash from the right. Its called a combo.
This does not make sense to me.

(ii) You cannot hold swings... they auto attack once you press the mouse.

(ii) Blocking is a one trick pony. There is no directional blocking. You can only block across your waist. That's it. Again the block does not hold.
In WOTR you can block in 4 directions

(iii) while playing chivalry I never felt like their was weight behind my strikes.
I can kill fully armoured opponents with one or two sword "slashes" right through the belly and not by aiming at all.

(iv) Animations are very poor imho compared to WOTR

(v) The does not appear to be any real attempt at allowing the player to target specific points or hit boxes. WOTR has complex hit box modelling.

Graphically Chivalry is very poor compared to WOTR. I have no idea how people can even compare the graphics but a lot have the opposite opinion to me here.

Chivalry still feels like a mod and a lot of things look abhorent. I saw viking ships for instance buzzing around the harbour like motor boats.

The game modes though were fun. But I think WOTR's upcoming siege mode will beat it.

Historically chivalry is a complete mish mash. One side looking decidely eastern and the other european. But not. Its game of thrones NOT medieval I am sorry.
Knights with throwing axes and such make this a "very light" loose loose loosley medieval game.
Chivalry has a lot of very nice gimicks like knocking limbs and helmets off and some roaring.

Well that's my take anyway. I have not been here since RO2. But thought I would pop in to see if any other TOGGERS were playing or hiring a WOTR server.

I guess chivalry is a bit more high profile and a little more accessible.

P.S. There are a few hack n slash games coming of age at the moment. Where in the forum are they currently grouped?

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Old 31st October 2012, 10:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The Deadliest War - Chivalry vs. War of the Roses - YouTube Totalbiscuit does a comparison video for Chivalry and WotR. Im really enjoying Chivalry, so ill probably get WotR at some stage as well.
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Old 31st October 2012, 10:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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People really got into his comparison. 270,000 views.
I think he is fairly fair about it. But some of the points I have made below are not detailed well enough. IMHO he got the melee combat very very wrong.

The review was done when Chivalry first came out "fresh" and WOTR had already been out for a while. I guess fresh is best.

Last edited by Destraex; 31st October 2012 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 31st October 2012, 11:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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(i) True

(ii) Kinda true...You can fake a swing by pressing Q or you can shorten/extend a swing by mouse-dragging.


BTW you have 2x (ii) so moving along

(ii) Untrue...You block by pressing the rt-M and pointing at the oncoming weapon. If you get their tip at centre of your screen you can block 360.

(iii) Untrue...Really depends on the "weight" of the weapon. Very few weapons will kill one of the armoured classes in two "slashes" (maybe two overhead strikes). That said I can kill an un-armoured class with one overhead strike with my Maul (basically a sledgehammer)

(iv) Can't comment as I haven't actually played WOTR

(v) Untrue...A perfect strike to the leg will sever that limb just as a perfect slash to the neck will give you a decapitation. Can't comment on the complexity of WOTR hitboxes.

Quote:
Chivalry still feels like a mod
It was grown from a mod...The same guys that made it made the awesome Age of Chivalry mod for HL2. That's one of the reasons I like and support it. A bunch of guys started out in their bedrooms and have built a studio... Launched a kickstarter...Built a game exceeding what they promised (with more to come) and are pretty much doing what they dreamed of when they first made the mod all those years ago. I actually think for a small start-up their work is fairly polished and has very good steam integration...Well worth $24.99

Quote:
and a lot of things look abhorent. I saw viking ships for instance buzzing around the harbour like motor boats.
Might want to look at your Drivers or perhaps an upgrade...I've seen nothing like this.

Quote:
Historically chivalry is a complete mish mash...Its game of thrones NOT medieval I am sorry.
And that's a bad thing how?

Although not really getting what you mean about Eastern (I assume you mean the Masons). They don't look really eastern to me. They've done a similar thing to what TF2 did... ie: Make it very easy to distinguish team and class from a distance so you can prepare tactics (which you need).


From what you've said I should probably check out WOTR but I have a playing buddy that was all over it at launch but has been playing C:ME with me since it came out.
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Old 31st October 2012, 11:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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OK...Wow...Just watched 4mins of the comparison video and really fail to see how you can say WOTR looks better.

Regarding combat...Try a C:ME duel server and see just how complex a good battle can be. Looking at WOTR it's all about "charging" up an attack, where as C:ME is about timing, aim and strike selection. A really good duel can last ages but if you make a mistake it's all over. I've wanted a good melee combat game for ages and C:ME is one of the best I've seen for great duels (with an opponent that knows how to play). Bushido Blade on the PS1 was nice and a few others have kept my interest for more than a few games but for me C:ME is pretty damn fine and I love it's heritage.

(disclaimer) I have not actually played WOTR.
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Old 31st October 2012, 11:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixa... View Post
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(i) True

(ii) Kinda true...You can fake a swing by pressing Q or you can shorten/extend a swing by mouse-dragging.


BTW you have 2x (ii) so moving along

(ii) Untrue...You block by pressing the rt-M and pointing at the oncoming weapon. If you get their tip at centre of your screen you can block 360.

(iii) Untrue...Really depends on the "weight" of the weapon. Very few weapons will kill one of the armoured classes in two "slashes" (maybe two overhead strikes). That said I can kill an un-armoured class with one overhead strike with my Maul (basically a sledgehammer)

(iv) Can't comment as I haven't actually played WOTR

(v) Untrue...A perfect strike to the leg will sever that limb just as a perfect slash to the neck will give you a decapitation. Can't comment on the complexity of WOTR hitboxes.



It was grown from a mod...The same guys that made it made the awesome Age of Chivalry mod for HL2. That's one of the reasons I like and support it. A bunch of guys started out in their bedrooms and have built a studio... Launched a kickstarter...Built a game exceeding what they promised (with more to come) and are pretty much doing what they dreamed of when they first made the mod all those years ago.



And that's a bad thing how?

Although not really getting what you mean about Eastern (I assume you mean the Masons). They don't look really eastern to me. They've done a similar thing to what TF2 did... ie: Make it very easy to distinguish team and class from a distance so you can prepare tactics (which you need).


From what you've said I should probably check out WOTR but I have a playing buddy that was all over it at launch but has been playing C:ME with me since it came out.
I am a bit of a nut case when it comes to military history. So when I saw the mason side I immediately saw a more eastern style look to them. That is fine. But most people were thinking they were playing knights still when really its just all over the place. A lot of the mason characters look like they would be right at home in saladins army. So it seemed more eastern influence vs western with some western thrown in as the vanguard class.

Here is how the knights armour evolved in a nutshell. Notice how chivalry mixes it all up. I mean you have knights with maille only and then advanced knights with armour clocking in hundreds of years later. To my eye thats like having musketeers along side ww2 machine gunners.

Its a fully fleshed out plate defence system along side primitive maille defences.






Apart from that the fact that melee classes have access to throwing weapons like javelins and throwing axes also throws things way into fantasy land for me immersion wise.

Pressing Q to feint or cancel is not the same as being able to hold a stance in
melee combat ready to parry a blow.

Compare these pictures to get an idea of some of what made me think eastern for the masons side.



Another thing that sort of irks me is that the medieval period was alive with colour. Sure there were some uniforms but a lot of the fun is in the coats of arms and individual flare. Chivalry instead has a regimented uniform system like you would find in lord of the rings or dragonlance.

As for the blocking aiming at the other persons sword to do so, and then having your block forced down against your will for no reason. I don't really like that as much as having proper directional blocking

Last edited by Destraex; 31st October 2012 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 31st October 2012, 11:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixa... View Post
OK...Wow...Just watched 4mins of the comparison video and really fail to see how you can say WOTR looks better.

Regarding combat...Try a C:ME duel server and see just how complex a good battle can be. Looking at WOTR it's all about "charging" up an attack, where as C:ME is about timing, aim and strike selection. A really good duel can last ages but if you make a mistake it's all over. I've wanted a good melee combat game for ages and C:ME is one of the best I've seen for great duels (with an opponent that knows how to play). Bushido Blade on the PS1 was nice and a few others have kept my interest for more than a few games but for me C:ME is pretty damn fine and I love it's heritage.

(disclaimer) I have not actually played WOTR.
no worries
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