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Old 31st October 2012, 11:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply [edit: The one with pics]

I can hear your comments about history and I guess that's why you love WOTR so much, it's steeped in history. You couldn't call it that without being historically accurate. I guess what I'm saying is it's more important (for me) to have a fun melee action/sim than an historically accurate one.

Melee classes DON'T have access to javelins, only the Archer class can wield it and a Knight using throwing hatchets is a trade off (it goes in his 3rd slot where his shield would sit)


With WOTR, can you switch from a charged run in attack straight to a parry because I think I'm kinda missing your point about using Q in C:ME. In C:ME you don't hold a stance (and I doubt historically many soldiers would) you move fluidly through stances...When you need to parry you need to actually aim at the oncoming weapon not guess which of four attacks your opponent will use.
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Old 1st November 2012, 12:01 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mixa... View Post
Thanks for the thoughtful reply [edit: The one with pics]

I can hear your comments about history and I guess that's why you love WOTR so much, it's steeped in history. You couldn't call it that without being historically accurate. I guess what I'm saying is it's more important (for me) to have a fun melee action/sim than an historically accurate one.

Melee classes DON'T have access to javelins, only the Archer class can wield it and a Knight using throwing hatchets is a trade off (it goes in his 3rd slot where his shield would sit)


With WOTR, can you switch from a charged run in attack straight to a parry because I think I'm kinda missing your point about using Q in C:ME. In C:ME you don't hold a stance (and I doubt historically many soldiers would) you move fluidly through stances...When you need to parry you need to actually aim at the oncoming weapon not guess which of four attacks your opponent will use.
Blocking is not like swinging. It should not be instantaneous, but it should not we some kind of over extended swing that forces you off balance enough to have to drop your guard as a blow comes in. That is what chivalry seems to do. You block, which really cost you nothing in effort and then see a blow coming in. Instead of being able to hold the block which should be easy. You are forced to drop your sword like your are off balance or gravity has beaten your arm.

In WOTR blocking can be held indefinitely in any directions. This also corresponds to the four directions you can swing (including from the left ).
You can of course adjust and aim from where ever you swing also.
But blocking in WOTR is a little more static. A block left will tend to block any blow coming from that direction, as long as the block is not defeated by a perk of some kind like "break block".
You can hold the block as long as you like. I would say this would happen more in real life than you think considering the size of two handed weapons.... but here I would submit to any experts out there.

But however it is it cannot be worse than having your block forced away simply to make the game more interesting.
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Old 1st November 2012, 12:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I guess what I like about C:ME comes down to balance...Much like TF2 the weakest class (archer) can hold his own in melee against a Knight if he times his attacks well, blocks well and stays nimble. A Knight can add a distance weapon but loses his shield. Each advantage has a trade off. Is this historically accurate? NO. Is it fun to play? YES.

The balance makes it fun no matter what class you play...I can't talk from experience but my friend said WOTR seems to descend into all "heavy" classes due to them being OP.
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Old 1st November 2012, 12:59 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I guess what I like about C:ME comes down to balance...Much like TF2 the weakest class (archer) can hold his own in melee against a Knight if he times his attacks well, blocks well and stays nimble. A Knight can add a distance weapon but loses his shield. Each advantage has a trade off. Is this historically accurate? NO. Is it fun to play? YES.

The balance makes it fun no matter what class you play...I can't talk from experience but my friend said WOTR seems to descend into all "heavy" classes due to them being OP.
lol. WOTR has a habit of making people very annoyed with any class they don't understand or are exposed to.
For instance I play heavy and it really annoys me that archers stand their ground instead of running and then whinge I can catch and kill them.

Armour in this period was simply put, amazing. It was largely arrow proof.

But WOTR is a very complex game and a lot of people give it a few rounds and
give up as they simply have not played enough to get into there chosen weapons groove.
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Old 1st November 2012, 06:54 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
But WOTR is a very complex game and a lot of people give it a few rounds and
give up as they simply have not played enough to get into there chosen weapons groove.
Same could be said of C:ME
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Old 1st November 2012, 08:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I've played both and whilst I do like WOTR, IMHO C:ME is just more fun overall...
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Old 1st November 2012, 08:09 AM   #27 (permalink)
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You'll have to join Trauma and I some time DM.
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Old 1st November 2012, 10:49 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Steam Community :: Chivalry: Medieval Warfare

Combat videos, explaining the system.
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Old 1st November 2012, 12:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Yeah that second vid is the one I linked in the other chiv thread. It shows the depth of the system really nicley. Easy to learn, hard to master.
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Old 1st November 2012, 02:20 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Watched the videos.

I do like that you have to aim at your enemies weapon to block but again why is the block a simple
matter of holding the sword in a horizontal and then instantly losing control of your muscles as it comes down?
Why can you hold your shields block but not your weapons?
Pressing Q fakes an attack.

Why did the knight die from slashing across plate twice? Was his steel armour made of cardboard? That is so holywood.
Real medieval battles sometimes went for many hours with very few killed. A testament to how well plate armour stood up
to punishment.
Notice how the slash is actually very shallow because you cannot duel with the left. Having to go first right before you can then slash left.
this is a major flaw for me. It really is probably 30% of why I cannot believe it. It is hard for me to take a game seriously that does
not bother to put left and right attacks in the control of the player. This seems to be a very basic mechanic that is left out
for no obvious reason? Was it perhaps that left and right do not really matter for the purpose of blocking and hitting?

Every attack looks like its a wild slash with no variation for hitting power. In WOTR you feel when your
attack is going to have a lot of energy in it.
Why for instance does what looks like a standard slash take off somebodies armoured head with ease?

You can jump over incoming attacks in full armour?? Are they serious about this being in common use? I would have thought perhaps
incorrectly that you would not want to be wasting energy like this with such cumbersome equipment.
Wait now I have seen it all. Heavily armoured knights doing quake style jumps to get over blocks. Exposing their bodies horribly as they do so.

I do like the stamina system though and think this is something WOTR would benefit from. I must say however that considering how fast fights
happen in Chivalry that it is probably not needed here. I think trained knights should be able to last more than the five minutes required
to finish a fight in chivalry.

I should also mention the first few times I played I was either at the top of the score board or the top three.
I had not played the BETA and the game had been out for only about a week. I did however play the tutorials before my first game.
I think I would get destroyed by a competent player of course.

I do not see any more depth than WOTR's system. In fact WOTR system may be deeper as it seems to depend much more on where you hit somebody in detail. For instance it is possible to shoot an arrow through a visor slit and is modelled physically. It is not a dice roll.

Does chivalry have a cumbersome system like WOTR where the weight of each weapon and whether a shield or helmet is taken etc all contributes to how fast a character moves or how slow he accelerates?
Can you customise things like the style of training you have been afforded that allows fast or slow attacks with a weapon?
Does chivalry have perks that further specialise a character?
Does chivalry allow weapons to be customised according to what an armourer would do such as the edge a weapon is sharpened to or how hard the metal is, what its shape is determining strength or the pomel type affecting balance?
Does chivalry simulate different shaped visor slots... its first person right?

P.S. I love that the double hander being used at 5:15 in the second video is from the late medeival rennaisance period. Is not being used
for what it was intended to be used for and cannot be. Plus it is being used by a knight from the 1200s, 300yrs before it should even be available!
Lets give them m16s while we are at it . His opponment of course is using an eastern sword and there is no denying this.
The sword in question was made for lopping off the heads of enemy pikes in formation. It was a true double hander and a stab could be performed using the hand grip forward of the guard.
If this was in WOTR I am sure it would be modelled to be used that way and functional that way. For instance the pole axe in WOTR allows the use of the axe and you press Q to turn the head around and use the hammer part of the weapon. The spike on the from being used when stabbing is performed.

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