Oblivion terrain texture problem

Discussion in 'RPG, Simulation, Strategy and Others' started by Triton6, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. Triton6

    Triton6 Active Member

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    Does anyone know where I should be looking specifically within the Oblivion data folder to fix this problem? Aside from the obvious terrain textures, that is. Or ever seen anything like this? Distant terrain drawing looks fine, problem is just medium distance & near terrain. Water is unaffected as are dungeons/caves. I have too many mods loading to list here, though probably the most pertinent ones I am running are Qarl's Texture Pack 3, Natural Environments, and a handful of landscapes such as rolling hills, entius gorge, etc. If helpful, I can post screenshots of my Oblivion Mod Manager load order. ES4 has the latest patch and I have both Shivering Isles & Knights of the Nine. I've disabled various mods & changed load order in hopes there was a conflict, but the problem persists. I have also adjusted texture size & other settings within the video options, but that didn't help either. The game runs fine aside from this nuisance.

    http://home.austin.rr.com/eljefe/images/screenshot1_sm.jpg
    http://home.austin.rr.com/eljefe/images/screenshot2_sm.jpg

    I'd prefer not to have to uninstall/reinstall Oblivion and load mods one at a time to identify the problem...

    System is a custom built Core2Duo box running XP Pro 64-bit, video card is evga superKO ACS3 Geforce 8800GTS 320MB (latest WHQL drivers installed), 4GB RAM.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2008
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  2. Spectre8

    Spectre8 Retired Administrator

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    That is massively bizarre!

    Sounds like you know as much about mod managing as I do... so I doubt I could help. I too wouldn't want to do a reinstall, but maybe just an install of Qarl over the top of itself? I'm guessing it's a file that's somehow gotten swapped around in there. Qarl does a full overhaul, so I'm also guessing it's to do with that, rather than any of the others directly.

    Best of luck mate, and sorry I couldn't be more help.
     
  3. Triton6

    Triton6 Active Member

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    No worries. I'll give it a whirl and see if "reinstalling" Qarl TP3 helps.

    Thanks!
     
  4. Spectre8

    Spectre8 Retired Administrator

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    One other thing... I'm assuming you have both parts of Qarls pack? There is a small patch for it as well as the big mumma. If not, grab it.
     
  5. Coot

    Coot World of Warcraft Leader

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    Triton, I have seen this before and also had it occur in my game once. It was some time ago however and I just can't recall what was done to fix it. I think it was a mod issue. If I get a chance I will have a look around the various forums. In the mean time do a google search on possibly "weird graphic issue with Oblivion" or something similar. Do you know when the issue started exactly?

    Come to think of it...it may have been Qarls textures.
     
  6. Triton6

    Triton6 Active Member

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    I have ignored this a few weeks now...From what I can remember, the problem started immediately after a fresh OS install and Oblivion install. All mods running now are the same when I initially started.

    I have the monster 1.7GB file for Qarl TP3 and a patch file that is needed if the unofficial Oblivion 2.x patch (I have 2.2) was applied. I could've sworn I also had another Qarl patch, but it appears not. I downloaded the 10MB TP3 patch 1.3 and that may be the missing piece. Looks like I should have installed it before applying the unofficial 2.2 patch. I'm going to start from TP3 and go forward. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

    Thanks for info!
     
  7. Spectre8

    Spectre8 Retired Administrator

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    Hope it's the answer mate!

    Also, were you running a 32bit OS before your upgrade?? I've still got Oblivion and tons of mods running on my other partition under XP32 and it's fine. When I tried it with Vista64... I had nothing but trouble. Even getting it to run vanilla wasn't fun. Given that the game takes a LONG time to install, as do the big mods, it's just a massively time consuming process that I don't have time for.

    Hopefully the patch is the key.
     
  8. Isthiriel

    Isthiriel Active Member

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    I'm not completely sure what the screenshots are supposed to be of?

    Textures in the near to middle distance are applied to models in your cell and neighbouring cells, the texture in the far distance is a single separate image that is height-mapped &c.. to make it look like the cell corresponding to that location is loaded when it actually isn't.

    That first screenshot looks a bit like a normal map applied as a texture :-/

    Mod load order is important for ESPs where object definitions can replace each other, it doesn't apply to texture replacers in general because the texture data (whether it is in a bsa or occupying the Data Files hierarchy) is handled differently.

    This is usually an ArchiveInvalidation.txt or Oblivion.ini kind of problem (the first because it controls what isn't loaded from BSA files, the second because it controls which BSAs are loaded). I don't remember off the top of my head if you can control BSA load order, I don't think you can.
     
  9. Triton6

    Triton6 Active Member

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    First, sorry for the novel, but this thread came up when I googled "weird graphic issue with Oblivion" & figured a detailed log might help anyone else if I can fix this.

    Very interesting, Isthiriel. I agree something is being called improperly and then getting mapped as the terrain. I've thought about trying to isolate the problem texture/map/etc., but don't have a clue of where to start and there's way too much data in the \textures and \meshes folders. I appreciate the info nonetheless.

    Here's a couple of daytime shots for the hell of it.

    http://home.austin.rr.com/eljefe/images/screenshot3_sm.jpg
    http://home.austin.rr.com/eljefe/images/screenshot4_sm.jpg

    I reinstalled Qarl TP3, Qarls patch 1.3, unofficial mods patch 1.1, unofficial Oblivion patch 2.2, then Qarls/Unofficial Oblivion compatibility patch. The readme for the compatibility patch states "Qarl's Texture Pack 3 incorporated the mesh corrections made in the Unofficial Oblivion Patch 2.0 wherever QTP3 needed to change parallax settings, but this compatibility between the two mods was lost with the release of UOP 2.1.This small patch fixes that problem. All conflicting meshes from UOP 2.1 have been altered to support the parallax mode settings used in QTP3, and QTP3 normal maps have been restored wherever they were overwritten by UOP normal map corrections (with one notable exception being the vanilla arena textures that were mistakenly included in QTP3 -- in this one case I have preserved the UOP normal map changes). Install this patch after installing QTP3, the QTP3 patches, and UOP 2.1." Not sure if this is needed for the 2.2 patch as I couldn't find info expliciting stating that.

    Something must still be going wrong cause the problem remains. I even deactivated all mods including official Bethesda ones and the problem persists. Also set the video options to default and only found out only one thing with that...I forgot how horrible 640x480 looks. :D
    Actually, setting the video options to default no longer caused Oblivion to generate the generic XP program crash error when I quit the game. Choice!

    My ArchiveInvalidation.txt file only has this:

    textures/menus80/icons/clutter/iconbook3.dds
    textures/menus/icons/clutter/iconbook3.dds
    textures/menus50/icons/clutter/iconbook3.dds
    textures/dungeons/chargen/prisoncellwall03.dds

    Some info I found with the unofficial patch says entries for meshes or textures that don't exist can cause crashes or make textures go purple (disappearing). I have a file called ArchiveInvalidationInvalidated!.bsa that supposedly allows you to totally eliminate the need for ArchiveInvalidation.txt. Taking that out of the mix and re-running the Oblivion Mod Manager BSA setting utility didn't change anything. The BSA settings match the screenshot that comes with TP3. I also ran the BSA uncorruptor within OBMM; no difference.

    I think I'm going to uninstall/reinstall Oblivion and take a methodical approach to try reproducing this. Also debating going back to XP 32-bit since other apps I use don't like 64-bit. iTunes....but I digress.

    I'll update what I find regardless.
     
  10. Isthiriel

    Isthiriel Active Member

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    Ok, I don't have Oblivion installed at the moment (saving up the $$$ for another hdd *sob*), so some of this is going to guesswork from what I remember fiddling with the texture packs from when I last played Oblivion (a long time before Qarl's pack was released...).

    The daytime shots make it more obvious that the ground texture (under the grass -- you know how to turn the grass off, right?) has gone from being something mostly green to something mostly black.

    IIRC, the Oblivion/Data/Textures hierarchy should override textures in BSAs (at least it did for certain in Morrowind and I don't think they changed that behaviour). So in Oblivion/Data/Textures/Landscape you should have a bunch of textures that correspond to the various kinds of ground and each should have an associated normal map (they'll be a .dds and a _n.dds for the normal map -- where they are used comes from the cell definition in the esm/esp but most texture replacers substitute texture for texture rather than trying to remap what the cells do ... it is much, much easier and less trouble prone). Irfanview and most other image viewers open up .dds files just fine and you should be seeing something like the description says, ie "chterraingrass01.dds" should look like a top-down view of some grass, &c..

    If you are seeing black (or some other dark colour) that's your problem :)

    It might be that the .dds isn't actually a .dds (or some other format incompatibility) so when Oblivion loads it reads something different from what is actually written. That's harder to diagnose and I'd basically cross your fingers and hope that's not it since no one else is reporting the same problem.

    If there's nothing in that directory, try unpacking the .BSAs that replace the landscape textures and looking in the respective directories there -- also try copying the landscape textures from where you unpacked them back into the Oblivion/Data/Textures/Landscape folder so you can test them individually.

    Also, before you reinstall, if you move all of the Oblivion/Data/* subdirectories to somewhere else and all of the non-oblivion .BSAs, then the game should only be seeing the same textures it would see if you had a clean install (ie if the problem is persisting it might be a hardware/driver fault ... like the black hexagons in bf2/bf2142) -- though this will cause other problems since some of the patches put stuff in Oblivion/Data/*/*, so it's only good for testing. (Missing textures should come up white I think.)
     
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  11. LiNan

    LiNan Just Joined

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    There are a few list of "Natural Environments" Mods. I have not heard of Qarls, so I am sorry I will be of no use...
     
  12. Triton6

    Triton6 Active Member

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    No worries, LiNan. Getting a lot of mods to work with Oblivion can be a delicate science sometimes. :)
    If you have a machine that plays Bioshock, Crysis, HL2 Ep 2, or COD4 decent, download Qarl's TP3. You'll be blown away by the eye candy increase!

    Here's a couple of quick screenies at 1600x1200, though converting 'em to jpg may reduce quality more than the original bmp. I'll post a few others with better lighting.

    http://home.austin.rr.com/eljefe/images/screenshot25.jpg
    http://home.austin.rr.com/eljefe/images/screenshot27.jpg
    http://home.austin.rr.com/eljefe/images/screenshot28.jpg

    Well, I figured out the problem. A mod I have used before, Nighteye Shaders, was the culprit. Not sure why it's being problematic now....
    This mod lets you change nighteye to infrared, green, orange, inverted, and a couple of others. Since this mod overwrites data in \Shaders, I backed up it up first, and then copied files. After loading into the game, the texture problem was immediately there. Restored the folder and everything was good to go. The mod has a couple of different flavors, SM 2, SM2.0b, and SM3.0. Initially used SM3 one, but also tried 2.0b & it didn't help. Turning off HDR didn't help either. It'd be a cool mod to use, but I'm not that interested in finding the cause.

    I ended up doing a clean reinstall of Oblivion and loading mods in small chunks before getting to this one, but I think it was worth it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2008
  13. Spectre8

    Spectre8 Retired Administrator

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    Excellent news!! Well done mate. Sorting those things is a right pain in the bum! Sounds like you've done well though.

    I too can VERY strongly recommend Qarls pack. Well worth it if you've got a decent system. My pooters three years old now, but updated a lot, and it runs it beautifully. About the only thing I've turned off was the grass. Not because of the load... I just kept losing items and bodies in it! When you're a lowly lvl8 charachter and you come up against some of the high level OOO characters, once defeated (man that took a lot of work) it's well worth scouring the countryside for spent arrows!! :D

    I had a massively epic battle with (can't remember!) a few BattleMage's outside Anvil, ordinarily I would have just run for the hills, but seeing as the arrows they we're hurling at me had a base value of 18hp.... For me, they were like handing me gold! Well... better than gold really! Ahh the poor Anvil Guards... Many of them died with honour! Took me hours of game-time to take this Battlemage down! The Braided Bow I got at the end of it though was worth it! 20hp! From then on, my archery was actually useful!

    Haven't played it for ages now... think I'll boot it back up! :p
     
  14. Isthiriel

    Isthiriel Active Member

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    Even with the grass turned off if I drop a ring in a "grassy" section, I never find it again :(

    With the grass on, I've lost swords, bows and a breastplate once. :?
     
  15. Violator101

    Violator101 Just Joined

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    Well im getting exactly this problem and im just running the original retail version of Oblivion with Knights Of Nine.
     
  16. Isthiriel

    Isthiriel Active Member

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    Violator, there have been a couple of patches and I strongly recommend upgrading to 1.2.416 of the appropriate flavour (if you have SI, you need the SI version of the patch, otherwise grab the plain version).

    Other than that, we need more information to try and diagnose your problem :(

    I originally finished the game about three weeks after it was released and since I recently found a cheap(ish) copy of SI I've started playing it again :)

    I'm getting all kinds of interesting visual glitches but I know I'm the one causing them :D (currently the Imperial Legion are disembodied purple helmets with various coloured capes a la Rayman)
     
  17. <Claymore>

    <Claymore> Getting Started

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    I have been getting the same thing after I installed the Knights of the Nine and SI. Then I started to get crashes again which I did not get before. I know it was not me causing them... well I hope not.

    I was also getting the same problem as Triton but a full clean re-install and one by one installing of the mods worked it magic and cleared that up but still getting crashes when I am attacked by Wolves.

    This is starting to drive me crazy.
     
  18. Isthiriel

    Isthiriel Active Member

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    I'm running a nearly-complete FCOM so I expect crashes and I get them :( But ctd/restart/reload is about twenty seconds and one of the mods I'm running is a rotating-autosaver so I usually only lose 2-5 minutes per crash and I have a (random) crash every couple of hours. I can live with that. I find the repeatable crashes to be more annoying, honestly. My second shopping trip I crashed as soon as I saved (corrupting the save file) after selling my entire inventory to the shop keeper. It took five lather-rinse-repeat cycles to isolate the problem to a single Green Silk Garment (out of the 200+ items I was selling, :evil: why couldn't they have kept Morrowind's shop ui?) that broke the save file if it existed anywhere in the game world except for my inventory :(

    Still haven't isolated the purple/invisible guards yet. Though I've managed to make it spread :D gold coins take up most of a room with a giant yellow exclamation mark at the moment :)

    BTW, it's been awhile for me, is 22K gold about right for a level 5 character? (Also, OOO's Rielle was way too easy. I walked away with three separate +20 damage / 2000/60 magic weapons that splatter almost everything I come across. I have 11 blade skill and I killed the Ogre guarding Weatherleah with two quick attacks... Oh and mustn't forget the Skeleton Mage Staff 45 frost damage on target 300/30(!) so you can do nearly 1500 damage for a single lesser soul :( ...need to get my mysticism up so I can cast my soultrap spell.)
     
  19. Violator101

    Violator101 Just Joined

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    The problem is everytime i try to install a patch i get that error about nothing new added.
     
  20. Isthiriel

    Isthiriel Active Member

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    And earlier today, I found the explanation for this.

    In short, Nighteye Shaders works on Oblivion before or after you patch it BUT if you have anything that changes the contents of the Shaders subdirectory at the time that you apply the 1.2 patch, the patch will fail silently and give you this problem :(

    (Also, on the topic of finding arrows, the console command 'tmg' puts coloured wireframe boxes around everything which can help locate small items on grass. It's a toggle, so typing it again will turn it off.)
     

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