Today's MMO Only 3-6 monthers

Discussion in 'MMORPG Games: The Realms' started by Trimethicon, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. Blue_Talon

    Blue_Talon Well-Known Member

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    For me, in chrono order

    MMOs
    WOW- 6 months
    EVE - 2.5 years
    AION - 1 month
    SWTOR - 9 Months
    GW 2 - 6 months
    TSW - 1 week at most (lovely game just couldnt get into it)
    Planetside 2 - 5 Months (still playing)
    Neverwinter - maybe next
    Elder Scrolls - probably next

    Single Player
    Skyrim - well over 300 hours...
    Monster Hunter 3 and MH3U (Wii and 3DS) - close to 100 hours now still going
    Dawn of War 2 (plus Chaos expansion) - 30 hours
    Shogun 2 (plus expansions) - 70 hours
    X-Com - 30 hours tops
    Fallen Enchantress - 20 hours
    Warlock - 20 hours
    Terreria - 15 hours (good value this one of only $0.99)

    Unfortunately apart from Elder Scrolls and Monster Hunter (if you havent played these then get them, so much fun), no single player game comes close to the number of hours you can get out of a good MMO.

    I love a new game, especially learning new tactics and skills, learning with people (TOGgers) and generally beating the game/challenges for the first time. I love new lore, trying to optimise a power build or build my characters to do specific tasks. Crafting for me is also huge. After 6 months most games have lost that flavor or downright destroyed what made them great (SWTOR I'm looking at you). 6 Months is the time when I think most games lose the most subs, and try to delay or prevent this by putting out expansions or mini-updates (new maps, areas etc). The one thing I dont understand these days is that games are so easy that a good team/guild can reach the end game within a week, and finish most of the content there within a month. This should not be possible.

    Make the end of the game hard, not impossible but it should require significant effort, co-ordination and poise to finish. I am hoping beyond hope that ESO has difficult end game. I dont want my hand held, nor do I want every second person have have super duper epic purple and gold flashy swords of flaming doom. Until this happens 6 months is all most games are worth, wih the exception of games that are generally difficult to suceed in, ie WOW (time and effort), EVE (even more time and effort).

    My rant is complete.....

    BT

    Btw Nice topic Trim
     
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  2. BishopNZ

    BishopNZ Well-Known Member

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    In my (ever so humble) opinion, ever since the genre was dumbed down for general consumption *cough* wow *cough* it hasn't been the same.

    I pretty much agree with the consensus that the fast majority of people will jump from MMO to MMO within 3-6 months, which is a pity.

    I do know one thing though, my online experience has improved dramatically thanks to TOG :)
     
  3. Vortigen

    Vortigen Well-Known Member

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    Very good points being made in this thread. Kudos to Trim for starting it!

    Basicly your title says it all for me : 3 to 6 months for a MMO these days is what I consider to be a REALLY good MMO.
    The time of WoW where I literally spent years are over. Things have changed and I have changed.

    * I don't play for hours and hours non-stop each day anymore like I used to.
    * There are so many MMO's to choose from.
    * Content and character building needs to be different enough to grab and hold my attention.
    * I am playing MMO's since 1999 and sometimes I have the attitude of "been there, done that" with MMO's.

    Nowadays I judge a game pretty much like Ludy does : how much entertainment it gives me versus how much $$ it costs me.
    And so far it has turned out allright :)
     
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  4. Bort

    Bort Well-Known Member

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    Its not just you, I'm having the same problem. I remember back when I first played Wow, the sense of being in that world and exploring it. I was never a great player, but I enjoyed my time in there.

    Now everything just feels like a grind. Sometimes short lived fun, but still basically a grind. Fun with friends even, but still a...well, you get the idea.

    I have no idea what I even want in an MMO now.

    I'm having more fun doing board gaming, actually sitting around with real people and moving little plastic bits on a board.

    Maybe I'm just getting old.
     
  5. Skel

    Skel Active Member

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    There's a lot more saturation in the market these days too, so many options. With so many "free-to-play" out now that just aren't up to scratch it tends to see a very transient population, and there's always new people coming in cause it's just a download away.

    It'll be interesting to see how Shroud of the Avatar plays out as this topic has kind of been their kickstarter campaign.

    Elder Scrolls Online has alot to live up to as well and I'm not sure how much to expect. A big part of the success of the franchise for me has been the community in the form of modding.
     
  6. Cahiry

    Cahiry Elite Dangerous Captain

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    I am in the same boat but I think it has to do with choice now days, When I was playing Vg for 4+ years we where in the same group of friends and really the guild didn't change all that much due to a lack of titles to play we stuck to a game we all liked, now with so many choices all my mates play there own game of choice and we all have different ideas of what game to play so for me it comes down to I never get all my friends in the same game so MMO's tend to feel like single player games without them so I guess it was my mates I stuck around for more then anything the game could do for me.
     
  7. Bort

    Bort Well-Known Member

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    Its always a killer when I'm thinking while I'm playing an MMO, "this is basically feels like a single player game".
     
  8. Blue_Talon

    Blue_Talon Well-Known Member

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    *Cough* SWTOR *Cough*

    Should have been KOTOR 3. Would have been great and probably critically and commercially acclaimed.
     
  9. Bort

    Bort Well-Known Member

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    Thats an excellent example. Really makes you think "what the hell am I paying each month to play this for?"
     
  10. Blue_Talon

    Blue_Talon Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Lovely game, great story, solid visuals but I dont need others to play the game. Its a solid SRPG with MMORPG elements added on top to get mass appeal. I hear its gotten better though so that positive.

    But it was never worth the premium upfront cost plus a premium monthly sub. It had great potential.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  11. Valdis

    Valdis Active Member

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    Combining the themes in the above threads, the biggest disappointment of TOR was that it was finally a game that most of the people I knew were converging on. All these friends from other games gave it a play. And it went splat. What a disappointment. I don't see any upcoming games that are likely to have that kind of draw, everyone's gone back to playing different games again.
     
  12. Trimethicon

    Trimethicon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know we played TOR together. I was in the closed beta since August, the game launched in December? My biggest problem was burnout, I played a Bounty Hunter multiple times to his late teens, early 20's, and they kept getting wiped. By the time the game came out I was sleepwalking/dreading going through all of the same content, I was burnt out.

    I see ESO having an already built-in fanbase, the Elder Scrolls is a huge IP. I think the problem there is everyone is going to come into ESO expecting it to be Skyrim Online, how those expectations are managed, achieved, will be interesting and telling of how it will do imo. I played Skyrim on the PS3 and all I kept imagining to myself was how cool it would be to play that game with others.
     
  13. Tachyon

    Tachyon Well-Known Member

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    On the flipside, I spend a lot more time doing other stuff now than I did when I was heavily vested in EQ back in the early 2000s, so maybe less depth in MMOs these days is actually a good thing!
     
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  14. Trimethicon

    Trimethicon Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I kinda touched on that in my initial post, maybe its a good thing that I no longer have carpal tunnel, or drink gallons of Mountain Dew and basically ruin most of my relationships, lol.

    But the gamer in me is looking for its next fix.
     
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  15. Ludy

    Ludy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about less depth being good. While some may not be able, because of time restraints, to do the high end content it is still important. I left TOR not because of the leveling process but because their sad excuse for a PvP lake and the forever broken raids.

    Until I hit max level the game was fine but once there I had nothing to do. Now granted I level quicker and put in more time than many. Still if I hit that brick wall at 6 weeks you can bet a bunch of others will definitely be there by the 3 month mark.

    I know it's being demanding but games absolutely need to have an end game. Be it the gear grind raid/instances or a sandbox build your empire effect. If neither of these exists or are broken and not fixed than people will move on.
     
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  16. Blue_Talon

    Blue_Talon Well-Known Member

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    The ESO end game PVP should fulfill that endgame grind. As much as some people dont like it, the faction grinding in WOW and other games adds many, many hours to the endgame.

    I dont know about anyone else, but my biggest pet hate for games like SWTOR is that you can max your crafting well before you hit the level cap. Crafting should take up as much time as endgame raids and PVP. It wouldnt hurt to learn from games like monster hunter where your ability to gain/craft new armor is linked to your ability to get the materials.

    Oh and less depth = bad. Simple to play but hard to master with a number of specialisation options should be the goal for any MMO.
     
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  17. Trimethicon

    Trimethicon Well-Known Member

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    I agree wholeheartedly, and I'm going to contradict myself here as I am usually apt to do; my most memorable experiences in an MMO were the times when I raided in a 10-man TOG raid and a 40-man PUG raid. But it was also the most trying time for me on a personal level because my relationships suffered as well taking a hit physically. So while I enjoyed it immensely, there were some nights I had to force myself to login into the game.

    When I look at the MMOs that I did play extensively they had a fully fleshed out endgame, PVP, collecting/crafting, a robust quest system, etc. There are a lot of MMOs that hit some of these points, but few hit them all.
     
  18. Valdis

    Valdis Active Member

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    One thing that always seems odd to me is that all these games have an endgame. Its a bit silly, isn't it? Why should there be any kind of end? I played in a chat RPG where the game was reincarnated every 3 years. Its a good idea. There's so much baggage by the end of 3 years, it worked pretty well hitting reset. Another MMORTS I played used reincarnation. By reincarnating you had higher base stats in the next life, so reincarnation was the only way to improve. Reincarnation might not work for most MMO's - offers too many chances for players to call it quits. But it offers a brand new world every so often, isn't a new game world always exciting?

    But aren't there alternatives? Why have a level cap? Its not that hard to design a system without one (or with one defined by the max integer value at any rate). In PvE games I kind of get it, after you outlevel the monsters, what's left. Although, wouldn't it be kind of awesome to have a MMO where over time the monsters level up to match the players? But in PvP games, there's really no reason to have any kind of hard caps.

    I guess what bugs me is that its so much work to reach the end game. But if you only like the endgame? The level up grind sucks. What if you liked the level up part? The end game sucks then. I liked GW 2, you could jump into WvW at the very start. The game was the end game. Awesome.
     
  19. Ludy

    Ludy Well-Known Member

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    Valdis- I think the distinction is more a comparison between Sandbox and Themepark games than PvE and PvP games.

    Themeparks have a higher need "end game" by their vary style. You are lead along a great story and grow in power to become a hero. The whole game is leading you along a very specific path and you have few real opportunities to create your own narrative. After this is over, all stories have an ending, you are left with little to do. Even games like The Secret World and Defiance that have a much more open leveling system still have this problem. Sure you are not "max" level but you are at a certain point just doing the same content over. So that content needs to be flushed out and working (i.e. end game).

    Sandbox games you create your own narrative and this means that everyday is new and fresh. Some of these have a real minor story quest line but it is less than 25% of the game and is completely optional. The problem is there is few great MMO Sandbox games. Eve is a fantastic Sandbox and people that like it's style play it for years and years. It doesn't have a "end game" as every part can be fresh. The problem is a new player can never catch up to the veterans. You can never earn more xp in a single hour than anyone else.

    This is not limited to online gaming either. Look at Minecraft. It can be a never ending quest to build and build. Then look at Tomb Raider. A fantastic story and great controls, but when the story is over so is the game for most.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  20. Blue_Talon

    Blue_Talon Well-Known Member

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    WARNING - Wall of test ahead!!

     

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