what happened to warhammer?

Discussion in 'MMORPG Games: The Realms' started by solarbear88, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. solarbear88

    solarbear88 Well-Known Member

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    EA Artist, Soon To Be Laid Off, Burns EA Management

    A very interesting read from someone who just got his pink slip from EA.

    Most interesting part... I hope he is not right as it will disappoint a ton of people:

    And Bioware? Don’t make me laugh. They’ve spent more money making the Old Republic than James Cameron spent on Avatar. Shit you not. More than $ 300 million! Can you believe that?

    And you know what they’re most proud of? This is the kicker. They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That’s the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas,they’re panicking , and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can’t keep pushing back launch.

    Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ……
     
  2. Reoh

    Reoh Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot of raw, naked emotion in Louse's post. :p

    That's how business is run these days though. Welcome to the world of "it makes no sense to anyone that aren't suits."
     
  3. Rickety

    Rickety Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    *shrug* Only the test of time will tell if a game is successful or not regardless of how much lamenting is done.
     
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  4. brohawk

    brohawk Retired Captains

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    Interesting read... we will see if they let a $300 million invest rot on the vine, but my guess is NOT!!! I hope the game has some good playability and if not there is GW2 and Rifts I am looking at as well.
     
  5. Drac

    Drac Squad Officer

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    Dude complains a lot, but doesn't seem to have a much of a clue himself.

    Miss-management happens almost universally with large scale creative projects. When was the last time you heard of an MMO or even large budget console title being completed early or coming in under budget?

    It seems there were defiantly moral issues though, which is never a good sign. Or perhaps he just couldn't take the pressure. It's not an easy job, crunching 12-hours-a-day-7-days-a-week for months on end as a deadline looms really tests a persons character. A bad crunch can carve out some deep wounds but that's just the way it is. Games are never going to be a sure bet, it's a high risk boom/crash market, shit will go bad, studios will bust and heads will roll as you watch the studio down the street rake in millions with their latest hit game.

    Personally I think this dude needs to suck it up, Grow thick skin or switch vocations. Most of the industry vets I know have worked for a minimum 4 different development studios each.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  6. Bayland

    Bayland The Doctor

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    He will now learn what lawsuits look like. He's probably accurate. Most large companies aren't interested in producing quality products, but sustaining careers. Which seems counter intuitive, but it happens every single day. The game will be what the game is. They will make their money back.

    IMO Opinion all of these online games shouldn't be released when they are. They are all works in progress on release. It's the way it is and sometimes simply because they couldn't visualize how it would all work. This is why Blizzard is kicking these guys butts. Anyway. Software.

    Now back to work at my giant software company...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  7. Snott

    Snott Well-Known Member

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    sadly, to me that looks like any large company.

    Bunch of butt-kissers whom everyone hates, but somehow move up the ranks, who then get rid of the guys who actually know how to do stuff because they are onto them and dont kiss their ass.

    My father was an owner-driver for a fuel company, delivering fuel to gas stations.His truck was the most efficiently run in the entire country for 3 years, yet when contract renewal came up it went elsewhere because he doesn't brown-nose.
    I met the guy who did the deciding (before this happened) and instantly hated him. Its always the sort that would've gotten beaten up at school.
    I hate corporate crap.
     
  8. brohawk

    brohawk Retired Captains

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    I work at a medium sized company and I don't know how they stay afloat. It doesn't make sense to me at all why they do what they do and I am not stupid. It kind of reminds me of the movie They Live with Rowdy Roddy Piper. I just need a set of glasses to be sure. :)
     
  9. Draadnor

    Draadnor Well-Known Member

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    This is all easily understood when you realise that many bosses are psychopaths and are promoted because they are. Have a look at this from Catalyst on the ABC.

     
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  10. Drac

    Drac Squad Officer

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    David Jaffe (lead designer on God of War and is now doing Twisted Metal for the PS3) has a better way with words that I do and seems to be thinking along similar lines. I was going to say earlier that an Animator has no real business commenting on game design and production issues, not in the way that EA Louse complains but couldn't articulate well enough so choose to leave it out. I'm glad Jaffe said it though:

    David is a really smart cookie, and his games have been nothing short of pure awesome sauce. His blog is often a great read too: http://criminalcrackdown.blogspot.com/
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
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  11. solarbear88

    solarbear88 Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered how Warhammer could score so many things right, Core Rules... RVR... Scenarios... Unique Classes... and yet, as a whole concept, fall apart. The most interesting thing from a Warhammer POV is how people were promoted to jobs that they didn't have the experience to do or have any communication with their team.
     
  12. Reoh

    Reoh Well-Known Member

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    It's also customary to lay a bunch of people off just before a product launches, so that they lose their "launch day bonuses" and credits for the game. That is a serious problem in the industry.
     
  13. Ange

    Ange Active Member

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    Anyone else notice the Irony from David Jaffe post.

    Ange
     
  14. brohawk

    brohawk Retired Captains

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    Well when I read Jaffe's post, all I could think of was another egomanic. Sure I understand giving and receiving orders being x-military but the one thing you don't want is groupthink, and you need alternative opinions.
     
  15. Drac

    Drac Squad Officer

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    The last game "designed by a committee" was released... um... never.

    That's why they have a design team and lead designers. That is ~their~ job, not the job of animators or artists. The designers almost have to be egotistical, to be maniacal about a particular point of view regardless of who can or can't see it. That's the whole point of their job. Without that large projects just go to shit. In a small 10-15 person indy team making smaller games then sure, break down some of those walls but in an MMO where you probably have close to 100 development staff (not including marketing and support) then you need a hard ass Captain to keep keep the ship on course.

    I've got no issue with egotists who through their antics deliver well researched ideas and good designs. The games industry is built on the backs of people like Carmack, Romero, Meier, Wright, Schafer and so on. All totally self obsessed asshats but they championed many great things. Of course if you're a shit designer but still bullying and pushing your worthless ideas around then please move aside and make room for someone that not only has the gonads but also the talent to back it up.

    I don't think it's a coincidence that these kind of personalties always seem to produce the best games. Everyone working on something as difficult to define as a game idea or design is going to be pulling it in every different direction based on their own personal interpretations. It's not like other kinds of software development where the requirements are crystal clear and you can check them off a list as you go. Most people I know in the game business get this at some point and start to trust the people they work with. Those that don't usually end up unemployed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2010
  16. brohawk

    brohawk Retired Captains

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    You know just because someone is smarter, more capable, in-charge, successful or any number of things doesn't give them the right to be asshats. Having had hard-ass Captains, I disagree with you and them. Hard-ass has nothing to do with getting a job done and in fact can be a detriment to getting things done. People skills is what really matters, and the best at that tend to adopt a more humble and mentoring spirit. But hey, if it works for you in your mind, have at it.
     
  17. Drac

    Drac Squad Officer

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    So in your world everyone always agrees and there are never any creative differences?

    I'd love to visit that place one day. Do you have Unicorns there too?

    Seriously though, look at any successful group dynamic and you'll find a decent amount of friction and asshattery at it's core. For creative work I'd almost say it's a necessary ingredient, or perhaps just a by-product of the whole process. I'd like to think there's a good metaphor for this but I can't relate anything to it off the top of my head.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2010
  18. Talamorm

    Talamorm Getting Started

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    Unfortuantely sometimes being a "hard-ass" is the view of the people with a different idea. I'm guessing that running a gaming company is similar to many businesses. I will give you an example of the business I'm in. I'm in upper/middle management of a fairly large insurance company.

    Alot of time my employees will fight a case for months, doing the right thing and expressing to me the issues and how they "beleive" the matter should be handled. I listen and consider their point of views but at the end of the day i will make a "business" decision to settle something that my employees where dead set against. Why? Becuase it's my job to make those decisions, not because I was trying to be a "hard-ass". Does it mean I'm always right, no it doesnt but it is still my call.

    I'm guessing that with lead designers is similar. Everyone has an opinion but ultiamtely the designers , "lead" designers have to make a call. If business was run by polling everyones opinion nothing would ever get done. It's just a fact of life. Corporate America can be brutal, if you want to swim in that tank then you better learn to deal with the sharks.

    Tala/Necro
     
  19. brohawk

    brohawk Retired Captains

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    hehe... hard ass can be interpreted in many ways, a specific example I will give is when the CO (Commanding Officer) of the USS Enterprise CVNA-65 didn't want us to use power tools because of the 750 foot long rip in the side of the ship that the previous CO (he was relieved of command after hitting a reef that the navigator told him was coming up but didn't make the decision to turn the ship) created due to well indiscretion (I am being nice), so...

    we had to use hammers (32 oz ball peen hammers to be exact) to take up non-skid (this is epoxy based paint with vulcanic ash in it) on the deck. Now my finger joints swelled up about 2.5 to 3 times their normal size by the end of the day hammering away at the deck.

    You see sometimes being an asshole is being an asshole. I don't have an issue with people making a sensible decision that makes sense to me if they would just take a little time to explain themselves. It isn't always sufficient to say "I am the boss, do what I say" especially if you aren't the one doing the job.

    At one time I had 110 people reporting to me doing pretty menial tasks, however I got them to do it and do it well by leading by example, giving them responsibility, accountability and recognition when they did well. I also helped them with their personal lives and their professional lives when it was needed. Leading is always about making decisions, it is about supporting your people so that they can achieve what you can't do alone. How well you create that environment for them to be successful is key in how successful you really are as a leader.

    And to be honest, I have never met a person that was dumb except in the cases where they actually had brain damage and even then there was still a spark there. But I have met plenty of people who acted dumb because they thought it was to their advantage. Most of them I was able to prove to them that that wasn't the right path. Showing a little compassion and concern for your fellow man can go a long way, but it does take time and trust. Most people don't have that kind of patience, and they lose because of it and so do those around them. Corporate America is brutal because it chooses the quick and dirty path to "riches" never really understanding the true cost or the long view. It is no wonder to me why our economy and our country is just getting worse.
     
  20. solarbear88

    solarbear88 Well-Known Member

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    Don't know that EALouse accuses his bosses of being Hard Asses. I got the distinct impression that he was accusing them of not doing their jobs or really knowing how to do their jobs. And in the case of one, not even being at work. I think that's why Warhammer was released sort of the way it was, with some great concepts but not fitting together properly.
     

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